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How AlphaChip transformed computer chip design

deepmind.google

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Re: How AlphaChip transformed computer chip design

#11

Post by jeffbee »

yeahwhatever10 wrote: post #9
jeffbee wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is floorplanning the blocks, not every feature. We are talking dozens to hundreds of blocks, not billions-trillions of gates and wires. I assume that the human benchmark is a human using existing EDA tools, not a guy with a pocket protector and a roll of tape.

Floorplanning algorithms and solvers already exist https://limsk.ece.gatech.edu/course/ece6133/slides/floorplan...

The original paper from DeepMind evaluates what they are now calling AlphaChip versus existing optimizers, including simulated annealing. They conclude that AlphaChip outperforms them with much less compute and real time.

https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~ey204/teaching/ACS/R244_2021_2022/...

Re: How AlphaChip transformed computer chip design

#12

Post by xanderlewis »

fph wrote: post #10
yeahwhatever10 wrote: post #5

Why do they keep saying "superhuman"? Algorithms are used for these tasks, humans aren't laying out trillions of transistors by hand.

My state-of-art bubblesort implementation is also superhuman at sorting numbers.

Nice. Do you offer API access for a monthly fee?

Re: How AlphaChip transformed computer chip design

#14

Post by hinkley »

TSMC made a point of calling out that their latest generation of software for automating chip design has features that allow you to select logic designs for TDP over raw speed. I think that’s our answer to keep Dennard scaling alive in spirit if not in body. Speed of light is still going to matter, so physical proximity of communicating components will always matter, but I wonder how many wins this will represent versus avoiding thermal throttling.

Re: How AlphaChip transformed computer chip design

#17

Post by pfisherman »

Questions for those in the know about chip design. How are they measuring the quality of a chip design? Does the metric that Google is reporting make sense? Or is it just something to make themselves look good?

Without knowing much, my guess is that “quality” of a chip design is multifaceted and heavily dependent on the use case. That is the ideal chip for a data center would look very different from those for a mobile phone camera or automobile.

So again what does “better” mean in the context of this particular problem / task.

Re: How AlphaChip transformed computer chip design

#18

Post by jonas21 »

epistasis wrote: post #6
yeahwhatever10 wrote: post #5

Why do they keep saying "superhuman"? Algorithms are used for these tasks, humans aren't laying out trillions of transistors by hand.

Google is good at many things, but perhaps their strongest skill is media positioning.

I feel like they're particularly bad at this, especially compared to other large companies.

Re: How AlphaChip transformed computer chip design

#19

Post by q3k »

pfisherman wrote: post #17

Questions for those in the know about chip design. How are they measuring the quality of a chip design? Does the metric that Google is reporting make sense? Or is it just something to make themselves look good? Without knowing much, my guess is that “quality” of a chip design is multifaceted and heavily dependent on the use case. That is the ideal chip for a data center would look very different from those for a mobi…

This is just floorplanning, which is a problem with fairly well defined quality metrics (max speed and chip area used).

Re: How AlphaChip transformed computer chip design

#20

Post by int0x29 »

xanderlewis wrote: post #12
fph wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My state-of-art bubblesort implementation is also superhuman at sorting numbers.

Nice. Do you offer API access for a monthly fee?

I'll need 7 5 gigawatt datacenters in the middle of major urban areas or we might lose the Bubble Sort race with the Chinese.
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