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Steam Removed Forced Arbitration from Their Subscriber Agreement

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Re: Steam Removed Forced Arbitration from Their Subscriber Agreement

#11

Post by kdtsh »

LordHeini wrote: post #5

That arbitration rule is invalid in Europe, UK and Australia anyway. Its one of those weird peculiarities present in US law which apply virtually nowhere else but show up in quite a few agreements across the world. I wonder how valid the whole agreement is if it contains points which one can not possibly agree to.

IAMNAL but there’s usually a clause to say that if some part of the agreement isn’t valid/can’t be enforced/etc then the rest of the agreement stands regardless. Who knows how well that stands up though (probably lawyers somewhere, but I doubt it is cited often).

Re: Steam Removed Forced Arbitration from Their Subscriber Agreement

#12

Post by drpossum »

tlhunter wrote: post #4

It was still pretty annoying to be told I can't use my steam deck unless I agree to the update.

The update is in your favor. If it were the other way around you'd want to start a class action suit. (I am assuming you're not an arbitration lawyer that priced themselves out of the market)

Re: Steam Removed Forced Arbitration from Their Subscriber Agreement

#13

Post by psunavy03 »

LordHeini wrote: post #5

That arbitration rule is invalid in Europe, UK and Australia anyway. Its one of those weird peculiarities present in US law which apply virtually nowhere else but show up in quite a few agreements across the world. I wonder how valid the whole agreement is if it contains points which one can not possibly agree to.

I'm not a lawyer, but severability clauses are generally a thing when needed, both in contracts and in laws. As I understand it, courts are also reluctant to strike down an entire law or contract if the entire thing is not what is being challenged. Answering a question of law outside the bounds of the question the parties are asking the Court to answer is called an "advisory opinion," and illegal in many jurisdictions.

Re: Steam Removed Forced Arbitration from Their Subscriber Agreement

#14

Post by gradientsrneat »

hnburnsy wrote: post #8

Lawyers are forming mass arbitration groups, costing companies thousands per arbitration case... >For example, in the TurboTax case, a judge tallied (PDF) Intuit’s potential costs for the arbitrations to be at least $128 million—$3,200 for each of the 40,000 clients represented by Keller Lenkner, the firm behind the mass arbitration. https://www.consumerreports.org/money/contracts-arbitration/... So companies are rem…

Microsoft got around this in some of their agreements by adding provisions to "throttle" arbitration so that if a lot of customers file arbitration at once, they may have to wait months or years to have their case heard.

Binding Arbitration was already a blatant sidestepping of the American Constitution and general corporate accountability, but leave it to Microsoft, a monopolist with government contracts, to take it to another level. The only binding arbitration agreement I've seen which compared was Linode's, which included a gag clause.

Re: Steam Removed Forced Arbitration from Their Subscriber Agreement

#15

Post by LordHeini »

kdtsh wrote: post #11
LordHeini wrote: post #5

That arbitration rule is invalid in Europe, UK and Australia anyway. Its one of those weird peculiarities present in US law which apply virtually nowhere else but show up in quite a few agreements across the world. I wonder how valid the whole agreement is if it contains points which one can not possibly agree to.

IAMNAL but there’s usually a clause to say that if some part of the agreement isn’t valid/can’t be enforced/etc then the rest of the agreement stands regardless. Who knows how well that stands up though (probably lawyers somewhere, but I doubt it is cited often).

Yep i looked it and that seems to be the case in german law.

Ther is actually some sort of way to resovle that called the blue pencil test.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_pencil_doctrine

Re: Steam Removed Forced Arbitration from Their Subscriber Agreement

#16

Post by jeffwask »

gradientsrneat wrote: post #14
hnburnsy wrote: post #8

Lawyers are forming mass arbitration groups, costing companies thousands per arbitration case... >For example, in the TurboTax case, a judge tallied (PDF) Intuit’s potential costs for the arbitrations to be at least $128 million—$3,200 for each of the 40,000 clients represented by Keller Lenkner, the firm behind the mass arbitration. https://www.consumerreports.org/money/contracts-arbitration/... So companies are rem…

Microsoft got around this in some of their agreements by adding provisions to "throttle" arbitration so that if a lot of customers file arbitration at once, they may have to wait months or years to have their case heard. Binding Arbitration was already a blatant sidestepping of the American Constitution and general corporate accountability, but leave it to Microsoft, a monopolist with government contracts, to take it…

I mean look at the shit Disney tried to pull recently saying a park guest couldn't sue after her husband died due to negligence on the parks behalf because they acknowledged D+ subscriber agreement that specified arbitration.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/14/business/disney-plus-wrongful...

They backed away from it but they tried.

Re: Steam Removed Forced Arbitration from Their Subscriber Agreement

#17

Post by remram »

I just got that email, "we have updated the Steam Subscriber Agreement".

It seems that the only way to not accept the new agreement is to close your Steam account. I assume they don't provide any way to use the games you bought if you do this, and don't refund you either. How is that legal?

Of course I've seen this in a ton of subscription-based services, but since Steam lets you "purchase" games, that really seems problematic?

Re: Steam Removed Forced Arbitration from Their Subscriber Agreement

#18

Post by opan »

robrtsql wrote: post #6

A lot of people on Reddit's /r/SteamDeck report that this notice popped up while they were mid-game on Steam Deck. Often leading to (in-game) death. Last night, I was playing Elden Ring, when suddenly the game screen froze, and then went black. The game's music was still playing in the background. I assumed that it was some sort of crash (notably, the first crash I have EVER experienced while playing that game on Ste…

I was watching wulffden's stream last night and it popped up and got him killed in the game he was playing. Pretty nuts.

Re: Steam Removed Forced Arbitration from Their Subscriber Agreement

#19

Post by nsxwolf »

hnburnsy wrote: post #8

Lawyers are forming mass arbitration groups, costing companies thousands per arbitration case... >For example, in the TurboTax case, a judge tallied (PDF) Intuit’s potential costs for the arbitrations to be at least $128 million—$3,200 for each of the 40,000 clients represented by Keller Lenkner, the firm behind the mass arbitration. https://www.consumerreports.org/money/contracts-arbitration/... So companies are rem…

Ahh I thought Valve had suddenly decided to do something consumer fiendly. Lol.

Re: Steam Removed Forced Arbitration from Their Subscriber Agreement

#20

Post by aaomidi »

nsxwolf wrote: post #19
hnburnsy wrote: post #8

Lawyers are forming mass arbitration groups, costing companies thousands per arbitration case... >For example, in the TurboTax case, a judge tallied (PDF) Intuit’s potential costs for the arbitrations to be at least $128 million—$3,200 for each of the 40,000 clients represented by Keller Lenkner, the firm behind the mass arbitration. https://www.consumerreports.org/money/contracts-arbitration/... So companies are rem…

Ahh I thought Valve had suddenly decided to do something consumer fiendly. Lol.

Suddenly?

- steam families

- removing the monopoly of windows gaming on PCs

- removing a ton of game piracy by making a platform people want to use

- progressing Linux desktop to be in a usable state

???

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