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Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

innocenceproject.org

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Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#11

Post by jmclnx »

monero-xmr wrote: post #5

The prosecutor who wanted to pardon him was not the original prosecutor, but a recent progressive elected one. The original prosecutor still believes he is guilty. Furthermore it is highly suspect that he was caught selling the laptop stolen from her house and the story about how he came into it is implausible. People who are willing to commit murder are often sociopaths and pathological liars. It isn’t surprising he…

I cannot help but wonder if his race had something do with the outcome :(

The US Supreme Court denied a stay, with 3 liberal justices saying they would have stopped the execution. Thus my comment.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#12

Post by DoughnutHole »

rdtsc wrote: post #2

> Even the victim’s family believes life without parole is the appropriate sentence That is odd, if there is no evidence that links him to the crime why not argue to let him go? Is that just from a desire to have someone punished, no matter who it is.

Presumably they still think he’s (probably) guilty.

Victims and their family’s can and often do oppose capital punishment on moral grounds, same as anybody else.

They want him punished but believe that killing him is a moral wrong, or they’re more comfortable with the risk that he’s innocent if he’s in prison with the possibility of being exonerated rather than killed.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#13

Post by rdtsc »

kergonath wrote: post #7
rdtsc wrote: post #2

> Even the victim’s family believes life without parole is the appropriate sentence That is odd, if there is no evidence that links him to the crime why not argue to let him go? Is that just from a desire to have someone punished, no matter who it is.

Unfortunately the victims or their relatives are not really the best suited to determine the appropriate punishment. These things are too subjective.

I am assuming there is still some kind of logic behind the statement. How they interpret it for themselves.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#15

Post by monero-xmr »

tokai wrote: post #9
monero-xmr wrote: post #5

The prosecutor who wanted to pardon him was not the original prosecutor, but a recent progressive elected one. The original prosecutor still believes he is guilty. Furthermore it is highly suspect that he was caught selling the laptop stolen from her house and the story about how he came into it is implausible. People who are willing to commit murder are often sociopaths and pathological liars. It isn’t surprising he…

>People who are willing to commit murder are often sociopaths and pathological liars Only 27% of them apparently[0], so even murderers are still more likely to not be a psychopath. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135917891...

[flagged]

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#16

Post by y-curious »

kergonath wrote: post #10
monero-xmr wrote: post #5

The prosecutor who wanted to pardon him was not the original prosecutor, but a recent progressive elected one. The original prosecutor still believes he is guilty. Furthermore it is highly suspect that he was caught selling the laptop stolen from her house and the story about how he came into it is implausible. People who are willing to commit murder are often sociopaths and pathological liars. It isn’t surprising he…

> Furthermore it is highly suspect that he was caught selling the laptop stolen from her house and the story about how he came into it is implausible. Things like “the State destroyed or corrupted the evidence that could conclusively prove his innocence and the available DNA and other forensic crime-scene evidence does not match him” should at the very least make everyone pause and reconsider the course of action. I…

I'm not entrenched in my position, but I would argue that there are cases where the death penalty makes sense. It seems more cruel to lock someone up for the rest of their life with no chance of parole AND denying them the ability to commit suicide. Maybe avoidance of cruelty isn't the point of getting rid of the death penalty, though.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#17

Post by nemo44x »

kergonath wrote: post #10
monero-xmr wrote: post #5

The prosecutor who wanted to pardon him was not the original prosecutor, but a recent progressive elected one. The original prosecutor still believes he is guilty. Furthermore it is highly suspect that he was caught selling the laptop stolen from her house and the story about how he came into it is implausible. People who are willing to commit murder are often sociopaths and pathological liars. It isn’t surprising he…

> Furthermore it is highly suspect that he was caught selling the laptop stolen from her house and the story about how he came into it is implausible. Things like “the State destroyed or corrupted the evidence that could conclusively prove his innocence and the available DNA and other forensic crime-scene evidence does not match him” should at the very least make everyone pause and reconsider the course of action. I…

This was all considered by the state Supreme Court. Due process was invoked and after numerous reviews at every level no court found anything to retry or reverse the case.

My personal take - of course he was guilty as unrelated people recounted confessions he made to them that included details that were never made public. And the property findings.

Saying that I’m not sure killing people is the greatest thing.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#18

Post by shusaku »

rdtsc wrote: post #2

> Even the victim’s family believes life without parole is the appropriate sentence That is odd, if there is no evidence that links him to the crime why not argue to let him go? Is that just from a desire to have someone punished, no matter who it is.

As far as I could find reading about this case, the “evidence of innocence” is very flimsy. But it’s a reasonable moral stand by the family to want to stay the execution if they think there is even a slim chance of innocence.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#19

Post by louwrentius »

spacechild1 wrote: post #8

There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized country!

To me the definition of a 'civilized society' is an absence of the death penalty.

Many people are also very confused about the justice system in America. It isn't about determining the truth. It's about trying to get you convicted, to advance the career of the prosecutor.

In that sense, the 'justice department' is anything but. The 'innocence project[0]' has shown time and time again that truth finding isn't the goal.

In the mean time, study after study shows that the death penalty doesn't deter people from crime and it's much more expensive than long prison sentences.

However, a strong reason not to execute people, is acknowledging that the 'justice system' is made of people who can make mistakes and that we can never be that certain.

Instating the death penalty shows a lack of humility and shows that it's absolutism is mostly for political gain. It scores with more authoritarian inclined voters who like 'simple solutions' and ignore all the complicated context.

[0]: https://innocenceproject.org

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#20

Post by blcknight »

nemo44x wrote: post #17
kergonath wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore it is highly suspect that he was caught selling the laptop stolen from her house and the story about how he came into it is implausible. Things like “the State destroyed or corrupted the evidence that could conclusively prove his innocence and the available DNA and other forensic crime-scene evidence does not match him” should at the very least make everyone pause and reconsider the course of action. I…

This was all considered by the state Supreme Court. Due process was invoked and after numerous reviews at every level no court found anything to retry or reverse the case. My personal take - of course he was guilty as unrelated people recounted confessions he made to them that included details that were never made public. And the property findings. Saying that I’m not sure killing people is the greatest thing.

> unrelated people recounted confessions he made to them that included details that were never made public

Do you have a source?

"The case against Mr. Williams turned on the testimony of two unreliable witnesses who were incentivized by promises of leniency in their own pending criminal cases and reward money. The investigation had gone cold until a jail inmate named Henry Cole, a man with a lengthy record, claimed that Mr. Williams confessed to him that he committed the murder while they were both locked up in jail. Cole directed police to Laura Asaro, a woman who had briefly dated Mr. Williams and had an extensive record of her own.

Both of these individuals were known fabricators; neither revealed any information that was not either included in media accounts about the case or already known to the police. "

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