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Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

therecord.media

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Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#11

Post by worik »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #3

I was appalled to see TSA facial recognition scanners at airports recently, where instead of checking your ID and boarding pass they scan your face. Almost everyone simply accepted the new process instead of opting out. I’m not sure how the eventual forced violation of biometrics can be stopped when most people don’t care.

> when most people don’t care.

Some people care a lot. But take great care not to be noticed.

For some people the concentrated attention of the state is too be feared. So that is why they say "yes sir, no sir".

It is a matter of survival

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#12

Post by nickff »

worik wrote: post #9
beaglesss wrote: post #7

You have no right to privacy in public. If you make this illegal private companies will do it instead, and the first amendment makes that impossible to stop.

> first amendment makes that impossible to stop. How so? Preventing facial recognition misuse (or use even). How is that impinging on the freedoms guaranteed in the First Ammendment?

Recording things is generally interpreted as a form of speech. For example, recording police officers in public is speech. If the government can ban private parties from recording people's faces in public, the same could be done to prevent recording the police.

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#13

Post by curiouscavalier »

BadHumans wrote: post #6
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #3

I was appalled to see TSA facial recognition scanners at airports recently, where instead of checking your ID and boarding pass they scan your face. Almost everyone simply accepted the new process instead of opting out. I’m not sure how the eventual forced violation of biometrics can be stopped when most people don’t care.

I flew recently and didn't opt out. If you have a passport or a state ID, any federal agency has you in the system already. What good would avoiding this particular picture do?

Are they basic RGB cameras or do they collect depth as well? Would even know if they decided to change the system to start collecting depth data, even if comparisons are to flat images? Honest questions, as that’s where my concerns are.

Boil the frog. If they start to collect more, it’s not as simple as “they already have my picture.” Should there be a breach, I can’t easily change my face.

I’m generally of the opinion that when it comes to personal data collection we should always say “no, convince me you should” rather than “sure, why not?” Other than an ever-so-slightly faster processing time is there evidence of any real security gain? My initial reaction, uninformed on the specifics but fairly versed in this type of security, is that’s unlikely.

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#14

Post by kyleee »

nickff wrote: post #12
worik wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> first amendment makes that impossible to stop. How so? Preventing facial recognition misuse (or use even). How is that impinging on the freedoms guaranteed in the First Ammendment?

Recording things is generally interpreted as a form of speech. For example, recording police officers in public is speech. If the government can ban private parties from recording people's faces in public, the same could be done to prevent recording the police.

And a valid news/press activity protected by the first amendment

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#15

Post by hnburnsy »

Dalewyn wrote: post #10
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #3

I was appalled to see TSA facial recognition scanners at airports recently, where instead of checking your ID and boarding pass they scan your face. Almost everyone simply accepted the new process instead of opting out. I’m not sure how the eventual forced violation of biometrics can be stopped when most people don’t care.

I actually opted in (Delta Airlines Digital ID, default opt out) because I have Global Entry so CBP and TSA all have my information already anyway. Opting in was just me authorizing Delta to also share my flight data with them so they can match my records up. The result? Faster passage through gate security, significantly faster than TSA Precheck in fact. As a frequent flyer, I like it.

In what way is it faster? Do you skip xray for carry ons?

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#16

Post by BadHumans »

curiouscavalier wrote: post #13
BadHumans wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I flew recently and didn't opt out. If you have a passport or a state ID, any federal agency has you in the system already. What good would avoiding this particular picture do?

Are they basic RGB cameras or do they collect depth as well? Would even know if they decided to change the system to start collecting depth data, even if comparisons are to flat images? Honest questions, as that’s where my concerns are. Boil the frog. If they start to collect more, it’s not as simple as “they already have my picture.” Should there be a breach, I can’t easily change my face. I’m generally of the opini…

I have no idea and don't know the difference but I could say the same thing of the camera they used to take my passport photo or my state ID.

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#17

Post by rty32 »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #3

I was appalled to see TSA facial recognition scanners at airports recently, where instead of checking your ID and boarding pass they scan your face. Almost everyone simply accepted the new process instead of opting out. I’m not sure how the eventual forced violation of biometrics can be stopped when most people don’t care.

I wasn't "appalled" but definitely felt uneasy about it. I am aware I could opt out and read all the discussions about it here on HN. I didn't do anything about it, despite being a very privacy conscious person (using firefox, use max adblocking/anti tracking etc). Why? I don't want to be an asshole, hold the queue and cause trouble for a TSA agent who is just doing the job and likely have no idea what "opt out" means, and with, let's admit it, no practical benefit for myself. (If anything, help myself miss a flight.) The feds and local law enforcement probably already have my face data anyway.

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#18

Post by mindslight »

nickff wrote: post #12
worik wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> first amendment makes that impossible to stop. How so? Preventing facial recognition misuse (or use even). How is that impinging on the freedoms guaranteed in the First Ammendment?

Recording things is generally interpreted as a form of speech. For example, recording police officers in public is speech. If the government can ban private parties from recording people's faces in public, the same could be done to prevent recording the police.

Resolving this pathological impasse is straightforward - differentiate between personal activity and commercial activity. Individuals recording the police, other people happenstance, or even spending a considerable amount of their personal time compiling a self-administered facial recognition database of people - fine. Businesses (or really, entire industries) creating surveillance databases that would make a Stasi agent blush, likely by paying the salaries of many people to do this, and likely selling [access to] the databases to pay for it all - not fine. Societally, we've basically been hoodwinked with this temporarily embarassed millionaires fallacy - scale itself creates logical contradictions of our rights and we need to attack this head on.

Re: Federal civil rights watchdog sounds alarm over Feds use of facial recognition

#19

Post by username135 »

rty32 wrote: post #17
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #3

I was appalled to see TSA facial recognition scanners at airports recently, where instead of checking your ID and boarding pass they scan your face. Almost everyone simply accepted the new process instead of opting out. I’m not sure how the eventual forced violation of biometrics can be stopped when most people don’t care.

I wasn't "appalled" but definitely felt uneasy about it. I am aware I could opt out and read all the discussions about it here on HN. I didn't do anything about it, despite being a very privacy conscious person (using firefox, use max adblocking/anti tracking etc). Why? I don't want to be an asshole, hold the queue and cause trouble for a TSA agent who is just doing the job and likely have no idea what "opt out" mean…

Was gonna meave the same comment almost verbatim.
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