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In unprecedented move, Ohio is funding construction of private religious schools

propublica.org

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Re: In unprecedented move, Ohio is funding construction of private religious schools

#11

Post by basementcat »

2four2 wrote: post #6

"courts have long given voucher programs a pass, ruling that they don’t violate the constitutionally mandated separation of church and state because a publicly funded voucher technically passes through the conduit of a parent on the way to a religious school." Oh wow, I didn't realize all it took to break the law was a middleman. This is why intent of law matters, not just the letter of it.

My understanding is the "separation of church and state" is at the federal level; states may be free to establish their own religious institutions if their state constitutions permit it. Perhaps the relevant part of the Ohio constitution is Article 1, Section 7.

https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-constitution/section-1.7

Re: In unprecedented move, Ohio is funding construction of private religious schools

#12

Post by bravetraveler »

2four2 wrote: post #6

"courts have long given voucher programs a pass, ruling that they don’t violate the constitutionally mandated separation of church and state because a publicly funded voucher technically passes through the conduit of a parent on the way to a religious school." Oh wow, I didn't realize all it took to break the law was a middleman. This is why intent of law matters, not just the letter of it.

See also, government and data collection. It's technically okay if they pay for it.

Technically correct is not the best kind, fight me

Re: In unprecedented move, Ohio is funding construction of private religious schools

#13

Post by sbelskie »

basementcat wrote: post #11
2four2 wrote: post #6

"courts have long given voucher programs a pass, ruling that they don’t violate the constitutionally mandated separation of church and state because a publicly funded voucher technically passes through the conduit of a parent on the way to a religious school." Oh wow, I didn't realize all it took to break the law was a middleman. This is why intent of law matters, not just the letter of it.

My understanding is the "separation of church and state" is at the federal level; states may be free to establish their own religious institutions if their state constitutions permit it. Perhaps the relevant part of the Ohio constitution is Article 1, Section 7. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-constitution/section-1.7

Not since the 14th amendment, no?

Re: In unprecedented move, Ohio is funding construction of private religious schools

#14

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

2four2 wrote: post #6

"courts have long given voucher programs a pass, ruling that they don’t violate the constitutionally mandated separation of church and state because a publicly funded voucher technically passes through the conduit of a parent on the way to a religious school." Oh wow, I didn't realize all it took to break the law was a middleman. This is why intent of law matters, not just the letter of it.

> I didn't realize all it took to break the law was a middleman

You might have meant this sarcastically, but using a middleman is exactly how many laws are routinely side-stepped (broken). It turns out that this is a crazily effective technique.

Re: In unprecedented move, Ohio is funding construction of private religious schools

#15

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

olliej wrote: post #3

I love tax dollars funding religious indoctrination, by an untaxed organization that has billions, if not trillions, of dollars of wealth even though the first amendment explicitly prohibits it. I also love that these bigoted assholes claim to care about children while bankrolling an organization that actively promotes child abuse, suppresses evidence of said abuse, blames the child victims, uses bankruptcy (despite…

Don't forget that they are also tax-exempt.

Re: In unprecedented move, Ohio is funding construction of private religious schools

#16

Post by benmmurphy »

2four2 wrote: post #6

"courts have long given voucher programs a pass, ruling that they don’t violate the constitutionally mandated separation of church and state because a publicly funded voucher technically passes through the conduit of a parent on the way to a religious school." Oh wow, I didn't realize all it took to break the law was a middleman. This is why intent of law matters, not just the letter of it.

As long as both secular and non-secular schools are eligble for vouchers in both law and practice then that is fine. You could imagine a situation where they have vouchers 'available for all' but in practice there is some kind of bureaucracy that only allows vouchers to be eligible for religious schools. If the state prevented religious schools from taking vouchers then arguably that is violation of the separation of church and state because they are punishing religious people.

Re: In unprecedented move, Ohio is funding construction of private religious schools

#17

Post by TheNewsIsHere »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #14
2four2 wrote: post #6

"courts have long given voucher programs a pass, ruling that they don’t violate the constitutionally mandated separation of church and state because a publicly funded voucher technically passes through the conduit of a parent on the way to a religious school." Oh wow, I didn't realize all it took to break the law was a middleman. This is why intent of law matters, not just the letter of it.

> I didn't realize all it took to break the law was a middleman You might have meant this sarcastically, but using a middleman is exactly how many laws are routinely side-stepped (broken). It turns out that this is a crazily effective technique.

“What do you do?”

“PLEASE”

Re: In unprecedented move, Ohio is funding construction of private religious schools

#18

Post by jmclnx »

I just see this as a move to a new way to invalidate LBJ's Civil Rights Law(s).

Many white people do not want little Suzie to be exposed to "the other kind of people". I know many people who struggle financially to send their kids to religious schools because they say Public Schools are bad. None of them even goes to any kind of Church. Plus these schools are no better that the Public Schools in their town.

So to me, this is all about discrimination.

Re: In unprecedented move, Ohio is funding construction of private religious schools

#19

Post by readthenotes1 »

olliej wrote: post #10
polotics wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wrote, and I quote exactly: """they're a bunch of pro-child abuse bigots, so of course its hypocrisy.""" I am sorry but your swipe there is so unwarranted and low effort, that it looks more like it's coming from a provocation plant trying to give liberals a bad name. Also for the record, I am pro-child!

There is a huge overlap between the "I want tax dollars to fund my religious ideology" and the people who say "lgbt kids should be punished", "sex education must be banned", "teenagers [girls] who have sex should be shamed", "child marriage is acceptable", etc. All of those policies are inherently pro-child abuse. Those are the same groups that also say "my religious freedom requires that I be allowed to require othe…

Certainly funding Catholic schools should come with a bit of trouble since leaders in that religious organization that has a history of raping minors.

Re: In unprecedented move, Ohio is funding construction of private religious schools

#20

Post by olliej »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #15
olliej wrote: post #3

I love tax dollars funding religious indoctrination, by an untaxed organization that has billions, if not trillions, of dollars of wealth even though the first amendment explicitly prohibits it. I also love that these bigoted assholes claim to care about children while bankrolling an organization that actively promotes child abuse, suppresses evidence of said abuse, blames the child victims, uses bankruptcy (despite…

Don't forget that they are also tax-exempt.

My feeling is that tax payer funded subsidies for businesses should come with a 100% tax rate. Any “profit” gained while receiving subsidies is literally just a redistribution of wealth from average tax payers to the wealthy. Ie another case of socialism for the rich capitalism for the poor.
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