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Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

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Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#11

Post by chrisfosterelli »

yosito wrote: post #9

I have a feeling that the people who would trust a product like Lumina are probably the same people who will never use flouride.

I'm strongly considering it, although I can't get it where I live yet. I've never had a cavity, but I spend a lot of time doing endurance sports and very high carbohydrate intake has become the latest performance enhancer. As a result I'm often drinking a couple hundred grams of plain table sugar per week and I'd like to keep my streak of good teeth health.

If I can do that for $250 I don't see why not. They're pretty clear it's not a replacement for brushing. I think of it as preventative care (assuming it is actually safe of course).

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#12

Post by pdabbadabba »

yosito wrote: post #9

I have a feeling that the people who would trust a product like Lumina are probably the same people who will never use flouride.

Since you bring up fluoride—does anyone know the state of the literature on the effectiveness of fluoride treatments? I’ve been getting them for years. But with the recent trends towards PE owned dental practices and efforts to juice their profitability, I’m more and more skeptical of anything my dentist tries to sell me on.

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#13

Post by whynotminot »

pdabbadabba wrote: post #12
yosito wrote: post #9

I have a feeling that the people who would trust a product like Lumina are probably the same people who will never use flouride.

Since you bring up fluoride—does anyone know the state of the literature on the effectiveness of fluoride treatments? I’ve been getting them for years. But with the recent trends towards PE owned dental practices and efforts to juice their profitability, I’m more and more skeptical of anything my dentist tries to sell me on.

I also get the treatment because why risk your teeth and health at the cost of basically $50? But am still curious to know more about its efficacy.

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#14

Post by Grimblewald »

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #11
yosito wrote: post #9

I have a feeling that the people who would trust a product like Lumina are probably the same people who will never use flouride.

I'm strongly considering it, although I can't get it where I live yet. I've never had a cavity, but I spend a lot of time doing endurance sports and very high carbohydrate intake has become the latest performance enhancer. As a result I'm often drinking a couple hundred grams of plain table sugar per week and I'd like to keep my streak of good teeth health. If I can do that for $250 I don't see why not. They're prett…

Read the article. If you have not already, you might rethink consideration of this product.

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#15

Post by dgfitz »

Grimblewald wrote: post #14
chrisfosterelli wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm strongly considering it, although I can't get it where I live yet. I've never had a cavity, but I spend a lot of time doing endurance sports and very high carbohydrate intake has become the latest performance enhancer. As a result I'm often drinking a couple hundred grams of plain table sugar per week and I'd like to keep my streak of good teeth health. If I can do that for $250 I don't see why not. They're prett…

Read the article. If you have not already, you might rethink consideration of this product.

They just needed to humble brag, the article wasn’t important.

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#16

Post by bhaney »

yosito wrote: post #9

I have a feeling that the people who would trust a product like Lumina are probably the same people who will never use flouride.

Can you explain a little more about where your "feeling" comes from? I preordered Lumina months ago and I drink fluoridated water, brush regularly with fluoridated toothpaste, and intend to keep doing so indefinitely.

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#17

Post by comp_throw7 »

yosito wrote: post #9

I have a feeling that the people who would trust a product like Lumina are probably the same people who will never use flouride.

Well, you can trivially falsify this feeling by going and asking some early adopters whether they brush their teeth with fluoridated toothpaste. (Spoiler: they do.)

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#18

Post by comp_throw7 »

Grimblewald wrote: post #14
chrisfosterelli wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm strongly considering it, although I can't get it where I live yet. I've never had a cavity, but I spend a lot of time doing endurance sports and very high carbohydrate intake has become the latest performance enhancer. As a result I'm often drinking a couple hundred grams of plain table sugar per week and I'd like to keep my streak of good teeth health. If I can do that for $250 I don't see why not. They're prett…

Read the article. If you have not already, you might rethink consideration of this product.

The article provides some reasons to think that the treatment might not be fully effective even conditional on the mechanism of action working as described, not that it won't do anything at all.

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#19

Post by bnralt »

comp_throw7 wrote: post #8

> in fact, it forms less than 2% of all the bacteria that cause caries I tracked down the chain of citations here. The directly cited article ( https://www.nature.com/articles/sj.bdj.2018.81 ) says the following: "These caries ecological concepts have been confirmed by recent DNA- and RNA-based molecular studies that have uncovered an extraordinarily diverse microbial ecosystem, where S. mutans accounts for a very sm…

The safety concerns sound circular in an almost Kafkaesque manner. From what I can tell, a strain of the bacteria was found in the wild that created less acid and seemed to lead to less carries. So people thought it needed to be safer, so they instead created a genetically modified version of the bacteria. But now it couldn’t even be tested in the wild because the “safer” version had so many unknowns that even letting people experiment with it would be dangerous, since it could potentially escape into the general population and hurt people (possibly escape through activities like kissing, the article states). But the earlier strain has been out there spreading in the population for decades/centuries already.

Why not just let people experiment on their own with the original low acid bacteria if they want? It’s already there in the wild. You’re already “painting your teeth” with different bacteria when you kiss people, so why not at least let some people pick which naturally occurring bacteria they can expose themselves to instead of letting it happen by random chance?

A lot of the hype about Lumina seemed to be goofy, but the hand wringing over “painting your mouth with bacteria!” is just as bad if not worse.

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#20

Post by AStonesThrow »

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #11
yosito wrote: post #9

I have a feeling that the people who would trust a product like Lumina are probably the same people who will never use flouride.

I'm strongly considering it, although I can't get it where I live yet. I've never had a cavity, but I spend a lot of time doing endurance sports and very high carbohydrate intake has become the latest performance enhancer. As a result I'm often drinking a couple hundred grams of plain table sugar per week and I'd like to keep my streak of good teeth health. If I can do that for $250 I don't see why not. They're prett…

I hope one day that the dudes eating sugar and the dudes using fluoride get into a room together, and discuss how long and often said substances are in contact with dental enamel, and at what concentrations, and then either they convert to homeopathy, or find something better to do with their HSAs.
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