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The Future of European Competitiveness

commission.europa.eu

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Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#11

Post by blackbear_ »

wiz21c wrote: post #6
AlanYx wrote: post #2

This is an astonishing document in the sense that you rarely see frankness like this coming out of the EC. It raises strong criticisms of a number of high-profile "core" regulatory initiatives, including the GDPR, DSA, and EU AI Act. There clearly is a fight building between the Thierry Breton camp and the Mario Draghi camp. For a taste of what is in here, see e.g., page 26 of the first document: >Regulatory barriers…

> Regulatory barriers constrain growth in several ways I fail to see why it is a bad thing. We need to curb CO2 emissions which, in some wya or another, implies consuming less energy. Limiting the growth would certainly beneficial and would allow us to transition to world where growth is less central.

> I fail to see why it is a bad thing.

First page of the foreword:

> If Europe cannot become more productive, we will be forced to choose. We will not be able to become, at once, a leader in new technologies, a beacon of climate responsibility and an independent player on the world stage. We will not be able to finance our social model. We will have to scale back some, if not all, of our ambitions. This is an existential challenge. Europe’s fundamental values are prosperity, equity, freedom, peace and democracy in a sustainable environment. The EU exists to ensure that Europeans can always benefit from these fundamental rights. If Europe can no longer provide them to its people – or has to trade off one against the other – it will have lost its reason for being. The only way to meet this challenge is to grow and become more productive, preserving our values of equity and social inclusion. And the only way to become more productive is for Europe to radically change.

The report also discusses how to do this while limiting CO2 emissions.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#12

Post by throwaway48540 »

wiz21c wrote: post #6
AlanYx wrote: post #2

This is an astonishing document in the sense that you rarely see frankness like this coming out of the EC. It raises strong criticisms of a number of high-profile "core" regulatory initiatives, including the GDPR, DSA, and EU AI Act. There clearly is a fight building between the Thierry Breton camp and the Mario Draghi camp. For a taste of what is in here, see e.g., page 26 of the first document: >Regulatory barriers…

> Regulatory barriers constrain growth in several ways I fail to see why it is a bad thing. We need to curb CO2 emissions which, in some wya or another, implies consuming less energy. Limiting the growth would certainly beneficial and would allow us to transition to world where growth is less central.

That isn't related at all. Please don't try to sell de-growth as some green strategy, you're only going to antagonize people.

De-growth will most likely lead to more CO2 emitted per person. Only high technology can change this.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#13

Post by htk »

wiz21c wrote: post #6
AlanYx wrote: post #2

This is an astonishing document in the sense that you rarely see frankness like this coming out of the EC. It raises strong criticisms of a number of high-profile "core" regulatory initiatives, including the GDPR, DSA, and EU AI Act. There clearly is a fight building between the Thierry Breton camp and the Mario Draghi camp. For a taste of what is in here, see e.g., page 26 of the first document: >Regulatory barriers…

> Regulatory barriers constrain growth in several ways I fail to see why it is a bad thing. We need to curb CO2 emissions which, in some wya or another, implies consuming less energy. Limiting the growth would certainly beneficial and would allow us to transition to world where growth is less central.

That's the mindset that created the problems highlighted by the report.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#14

Post by lsy »

I suspect it is actually a great strength of Europe that the attitude towards regulation (to put it perhaps overly simplistically, favoring more intangible rights over economic growth) precludes hype and bubble phenomena like the mentioned "creation of large, integrated data sets" or "young, innovative tech companies". This means that business, at least to some extent, is forced to address real-world issues and work at a more local level. What is seen as "innovative" in the US is typically merely rent-seeking or parasitic on the broader society, and it seems likely that slower, more measured growth is consistent with better outcomes overall.

It is also curious to me that the US and China are seen as examples of what to aim for, rather than as cautionary tales of what can happen with an excessive focus on growth. It is not clear to me that the general happiness of people in the US or China exceeds that of people in Europe. On the contrary, it seems that those two countries are almost constantly dealing with some horrible externality of unbridled focus on stock prices, revenues, growth etc, to the detriment of the broader social good. Housing crises, homelessness, rampant privacy violations, the expansion of police states to maintain the boundary between haves and have-nots, debt crises, long working hours and bad conditions — these are all phenomena that seem more prevalent in countries with a higher focus on "competitiveness". What good does it do a middle-class worker to make twice the absolute salary when they are spending half of it correcting for the deficiencies of their society?

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#15

Post by Mistletoe »

frankjr wrote: post #5

> Europe largely missed out on the digital revolution led by the internet and the productivity gains it brought: in fact, the productivity gap between the EU and the US is largely explained by the tech sector. The EU is weak in the emerging technologies that will drive future growth. Only four of the world’s top 50 tech companies are European. > Europe is stuck in a static industrial structure with few new companies…

The thing is though that I want to move to Europe precisely for all these same reasons. And I want to do it with my USA dollars and wealth that enabled it, so I do recognize the dissonance there.

Are Europeans happier due to all of the reasons you listed? Do you enable wealth to grow at the expense of the happiness of its residents if you implement the reforms needed to “move fast and break things”? Are Americans happier due to this wealth and entrepreneurship? I don’t think so, they seem pretty miserable right now. Overconsumption and having too much has made this generation have a lower life expectancy than the last, a stunning result.

It would be unwise to pass these changes and enrich a few wealthy Europeans at the top and instill serfdom again and wealth inequality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#16

Post by AlanYx »

izacus wrote: post #7
AlanYx wrote: post #2

This is an astonishing document in the sense that you rarely see frankness like this coming out of the EC. It raises strong criticisms of a number of high-profile "core" regulatory initiatives, including the GDPR, DSA, and EU AI Act. There clearly is a fight building between the Thierry Breton camp and the Mario Draghi camp. For a taste of what is in here, see e.g., page 26 of the first document: >Regulatory barriers…

Note also how all of that relates to *fragmentation* of enforcement for those regulations and not the regulation itself. Which is kind of a disaster for at least GDPR - depending on the country, the enforcement and interpretation varies wildly and the lack of central authority is a (common) issue for these kind of directives.

The report is critical of both actually (the regulations themselves as well as fragmentation in compliance and enforcement).

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#17

Post by izacus »

mxstbr wrote: post #3

Patrick Collison posted a summary of the results on Twitter in case you don't want to read the whole report: https://x.com/patrickc/status/1833127988512305352 TL;DR: "Mario Draghi's new report on EU competitiveness doesn't mince words."

It's also an American that cherry-picks a tiny part of a significantly more balanced report to drive their own viewpoint. As usual.

Read the actual doc.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#18

Post by moi2388 »

Mistletoe wrote: post #15
frankjr wrote: post #5

> Europe largely missed out on the digital revolution led by the internet and the productivity gains it brought: in fact, the productivity gap between the EU and the US is largely explained by the tech sector. The EU is weak in the emerging technologies that will drive future growth. Only four of the world’s top 50 tech companies are European. > Europe is stuck in a static industrial structure with few new companies…

The thing is though that I want to move to Europe precisely for all these same reasons. And I want to do it with my USA dollars and wealth that enabled it, so I do recognize the dissonance there. Are Europeans happier due to all of the reasons you listed? Do you enable wealth to grow at the expense of the happiness of its residents if you implement the reforms needed to “move fast and break things”? Are Americans hap…

I suppose the truth/ideal situation would be somewhere in the middle.

But the inability to capitalise on the tech sector, difficult regulations as barrier to entry, and a lot of changing rules regarding innovation, making things “green” and environmental and consumer safety does give a high burden to industry when competing with entities like China and the USA which do not have these restrictions.

I think a long-term plan regarding regulations which are clear upfront and don’t constantly change, as well as massive tax benefits to new corporations could provide an economical boost.

Having said that, I am not an economist, so I’d love someone with more knowledge to give their 2 cents. (Tax free, of course)

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#19

Post by izacus »

AlanYx wrote: post #16
izacus wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note also how all of that relates to *fragmentation* of enforcement for those regulations and not the regulation itself. Which is kind of a disaster for at least GDPR - depending on the country, the enforcement and interpretation varies wildly and the lack of central authority is a (common) issue for these kind of directives.

The report is critical of both actually (the regulations themselves as well as fragmentation in compliance and enforcement).

It is, but pretty much every single takeaway from even other points (energy, defense, etc.) comes back much strongly to the fragmentation of interpretations, enforcements and laws across the member states than the existence of regulation itself.

Of course, haters of regulation will probably ignore this part and focus on the "GDPR bad" narrative :)

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