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My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

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Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#11

Post by ToucanLoucan »

analyte123 wrote: post #4

During this same time period I had a project at a part-time gig which involved updating document templates and adding a few fields here and there for a legal application. The application was used by a law firm which specialized in mortgages. So I saw the details of various documents one is served in these situations: notice of default, acceleration notices, notice to vacate, and ultimately evictions and foreclosure a…

> For a guy like the one in the post to show up, you probably would have had to completely ignore probably a dozen of these documents for at least 6 months, not paying your mortgage all along.

I find it interesting that in all of these discussions it's treated as known that the person at hand is ignoring the notices and just pretending they aren't in danger of losing their home, just like in issues of evictions for rent, it's treated that for some reason the tenant has decided they don't need to pay. When IMO, in both of these, it's much more reasonable to assume they can't pay.

Maybe it's just a reflexive self-protection thing in people. It's easier to watch/envision a family being forced out of their home via state violence if you assume they were just stupid/inept in some way, that they did something wrong. That the very same thing couldn't happen to you because you would never just not pay your mortgage. And I mean, same. I would never not pay my mortgage. But I can easily conjure all kinds of nightmares that would render me unable to pay my mortgage.

Maybe people just don't like thinking about that.

Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#12

Post by bombcar »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #5
analyte123 wrote: post #4

During this same time period I had a project at a part-time gig which involved updating document templates and adding a few fields here and there for a legal application. The application was used by a law firm which specialized in mortgages. So I saw the details of various documents one is served in these situations: notice of default, acceleration notices, notice to vacate, and ultimately evictions and foreclosure a…

> you probably would have had to completely ignore probably a dozen of these documents for at least 6 months, not paying your mortgage all along. Fun-fact: thems the benefits of being a mortgage holder. If you're a tenant that's renting, you get no such legal protections - let alone discretion from whichever faceless entity actually owns the property: where I am in King County WA, I think, at most you can get 30 days…

This is why the "if you have a loan you're just renting from the bank" people aren't right - sure, in a way it's true but there really IS a legal difference, and it DOES come into play when things go south.

Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#13

Post by santoshalper »

I have spent about 20 years in the mortgage and housing industry, a decent amount of that in servicing and default. I have seen some shady shit including borrowers who committed mortgage fraud and lenders who made loans they knew would ultimately blow up in someone's face (not theirs!).

That said, 99% of defaults are very simple: At the time of the loan, the borrower could afford to make the mortgage payment. Later down the road, something changes in their circumstance, and they can no longer afford to make the monthly payment (or anything close enough to work out a deal). The most common reasons are a loss of income or severe medical issues.

Mortgage servicers and investors almost never want to foreclose on a home. An extended default leading to a foreclosure is very costly, and the servicer is usually fronting the money to the investor the entire time. Everyone loses when a foreclosure happens (though only one party doesn't have a home anymore).

I am profoundly sympathetic to anyone who gets evicted, but lenders only make mortgage loans because the property is collateral. How else would someone front a normal borrower hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#14

Post by santoshalper »

bombcar wrote: post #12
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you probably would have had to completely ignore probably a dozen of these documents for at least 6 months, not paying your mortgage all along. Fun-fact: thems the benefits of being a mortgage holder. If you're a tenant that's renting, you get no such legal protections - let alone discretion from whichever faceless entity actually owns the property: where I am in King County WA, I think, at most you can get 30 days…

This is why the "if you have a loan you're just renting from the bank" people aren't right - sure, in a way it's true but there really IS a legal difference, and it DOES come into play when things go south.

Yes, of course, there is a huge difference between having a mortgage (you are the owner but the investor has a lien on your property) and renting.

Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#16

Post by peterldowns »

coding123 wrote: post #9

There needs to be some standard addendum attached to homes as an option that anyone selling a home can attach to the sale. Something like: This house cannot be used as an investment vehicle. It cannot be sold by a real-estate agent with a contract of more than 1%. It cannot be used as a rental. It cannot be sold for more than inflation would allow. Anyone found violating this addendum may be sued. All proceeds from t…

(Ignoring the obvious problems of how such an addendum could be written and enforced.)

Why? When would it make sense for someone to attach this addendum to a sale? All these penalties and restrictions would only mean getting paid less for the same property. On the buyer side, why would anyone want an asset like you've described?

I live in a home that I enjoy in part because it is a fantastic investment that is highly-leveraged (through a mortgage) in a way not possible for other types of assets. If I need to I can rent out rooms or the entire property. I can sell it to whoever I want, whenever I want. I can borrow against my partial equity in the property. My mortgage is 30-year fixed, but I can always refinance (with no prepayment penalty) if rates go down below my locked rate.

I wouldn't want to buy a house without these benefits, and I don't know who else would. If this became standard it would reduce demand for this asset class, and therefore make it less profitable to build new housing, which is exactly the opposite of what you want.

Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#19

Post by sandspar »

I've seen a few sides of money. Raised upper class, lost it all and became underclass, then made it back. I'm always amazed at how limited rich people's worldview is. The average software developer, coastal liberal etc. They've never felt terror, the visceral feeling of being terrified. They've never been predated upon. They've never been used and discarded. The underclass lives with this stuff every day, 24/7, and rich people never experience it even once in their whole lives. And the rich people presume to talk down to and lecture the poor. I have a great deal of contempt for people of my class, the rich.

Re: My job is to watch dreams die (2011)

#20

Post by [deleted] »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #11
analyte123 wrote: post #4

During this same time period I had a project at a part-time gig which involved updating document templates and adding a few fields here and there for a legal application. The application was used by a law firm which specialized in mortgages. So I saw the details of various documents one is served in these situations: notice of default, acceleration notices, notice to vacate, and ultimately evictions and foreclosure a…

> For a guy like the one in the post to show up, you probably would have had to completely ignore probably a dozen of these documents for at least 6 months, not paying your mortgage all along. I find it interesting that in all of these discussions it's treated as known that the person at hand is ignoring the notices and just pretending they aren't in danger of losing their home, just like in issues of evictions for r…

[deleted]
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