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Pour over Coffee Got Good

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Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#11

Post by yifanl »

matrix87 wrote: post #3

My problem with coffee hobbyism is it's just people constantly trying to upsell each other more expensive gear. I'm not sure why $400 for just a grinder makes sense to some people, people can get computers and phones for that money And there's this general attitude of snobbishness, like you have to spend at least 600 on gear to have a "real espresso". Pretty much r/coffee in a nutshell (r/espresso even worse). And in…

I mean, for better or worse, we've accepted pour-overs are the way to go at home. I have a 60 dollar setup that's been great for me for 6 years. I'm sure I could be convinced a 600 dollar setup tastes better and is more convenient and whatever, but I don't care too much when I just need to serve myself and my roommate.

But this article is about the cafe setting, where it'd be irresponsible to limit customers based on how fast you can handgrind beans, and that's where salesmanship works its magic. And yes, some of it's pure snobbery, but even that's a marketing point if you're the only coffeeshop on the block with the all-copper setup :P

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#12

Post by matrix87 »

yifanl wrote: post #11
matrix87 wrote: post #3

My problem with coffee hobbyism is it's just people constantly trying to upsell each other more expensive gear. I'm not sure why $400 for just a grinder makes sense to some people, people can get computers and phones for that money And there's this general attitude of snobbishness, like you have to spend at least 600 on gear to have a "real espresso". Pretty much r/coffee in a nutshell (r/espresso even worse). And in…

I mean, for better or worse, we've accepted pour-overs are the way to go at home. I have a 60 dollar setup that's been great for me for 6 years. I'm sure I could be convinced a 600 dollar setup tastes better and is more convenient and whatever, but I don't care too much when I just need to serve myself and my roommate. But this article is about the cafe setting, where it'd be irresponsible to limit customers based on…

> we've accepted pour-overs are the way to go at home

I do espresso, that's just my preference. If the shot comes out right, it has these flavors that are really hard to describe (can't find an appropriate word here)

But consistency is hard

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#13

Post by hattmall »

matrix87 wrote: post #3

My problem with coffee hobbyism is it's just people constantly trying to upsell each other more expensive gear. I'm not sure why $400 for just a grinder makes sense to some people, people can get computers and phones for that money And there's this general attitude of snobbishness, like you have to spend at least 600 on gear to have a "real espresso". Pretty much r/coffee in a nutshell (r/espresso even worse). And in…

$10 Blade Grinder < $25 high torque blade grinder < $150 burr grinder < $400 coated micro abrasive burr grinder < $6 mortar and pestle

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#14

Post by matrix87 »

hattmall wrote: post #13
matrix87 wrote: post #3

My problem with coffee hobbyism is it's just people constantly trying to upsell each other more expensive gear. I'm not sure why $400 for just a grinder makes sense to some people, people can get computers and phones for that money And there's this general attitude of snobbishness, like you have to spend at least 600 on gear to have a "real espresso". Pretty much r/coffee in a nutshell (r/espresso even worse). And in…

$10 Blade Grinder < $25 high torque blade grinder < $150 burr grinder < $400 coated micro abrasive burr grinder < $6 mortar and pestle

> $6 mortar and pestle

maybe for granularity but the mess is probably god awful to deal with

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#15

Post by dagw »

matrix87 wrote: post #3

My problem with coffee hobbyism is it's just people constantly trying to upsell each other more expensive gear. I'm not sure why $400 for just a grinder makes sense to some people, people can get computers and phones for that money And there's this general attitude of snobbishness, like you have to spend at least 600 on gear to have a "real espresso". Pretty much r/coffee in a nutshell (r/espresso even worse). And in…

if there's no objective measure

There are lots of objective ways to compare grinders and espresso machines. With grinders you have obvious ones like speed, but also consistency (does every run give you the same size particles) and particle size distribution (are all the particles more or less the same size). With espresso machines the big ones are temperature and pressure stability, both within a single shot and also shot to shot. All of these things can measurably affect the end result of the coffee you make. That isn't to say that there isn't also a lot pseudoscience and snobbishness also in coffee, or the diminishing returns don't kick in quite quickly.

All of this is ignoring things like design and ergonomics that many people also value. If I'm going to have a large machine that I use every day taking up counter space in my kitchen then I might be willing to pay a bit extra just for it to be pleasing to look at and enjoyable to use, even if those things cannot be detected in a blind tasting of the resulting coffee.

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#17

Post by ccwu9999 »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #4

Hadn’t heard of the clover. Over $10k for 1 cup at a time. Nice

The clover was a magical device. Andy Rubin, of Android/Danger fame, was a huge coffee aficionado and would have all sorts of coffee machinery in the Android offices at Google. When we were in a partnership with the team, when we had to meet if I could help it, it would be at the Android offices just so I could get a cup of clover brewed coffeee. The most satisfying part of the ritual was after the coffee was brewed, the piston would push up the spent grounds to the top of the clover and you would use a rake shaped squeegee to clean the grounds from machine in a motion that resembled tending a zen garden. Aeropress is a rough approximation of the richness of the resulting brew. But it was a delightful machine. Shame Starbucks could not make it more ubiquitous. Bulk filter coffee is just faster. On an unrelated note, I am surprised the author didn’t mention Philz which is pourover using Mr. Coffee style filters. The volume Of coffee used for a cup a Philz is epic.

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#18

Post by belval »

cainxinth wrote: post #5
matrix87 wrote: post #3

My problem with coffee hobbyism is it's just people constantly trying to upsell each other more expensive gear. I'm not sure why $400 for just a grinder makes sense to some people, people can get computers and phones for that money And there's this general attitude of snobbishness, like you have to spend at least 600 on gear to have a "real espresso". Pretty much r/coffee in a nutshell (r/espresso even worse). And in…

That happens in every hobby. There was just a thread on Reddit about cheeky names for people who spend too much on gear. Apparently, mountain bikers call them 007s: 0 skills, 0 style, $7,000 bike.

I think for coffee in particular the GP is missing that a lot of people are buying lattes every other day for 5$+. In a year that's +900$ which is definitely enough to get excellent gear.

My mignon grinder and rancilio silvia set me back 1000$, but I have been using them daily for 4 years to make lattes for my partner and I. That's over 2920 lattes at an average of 0.34$ each!

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#19

Post by zug_zug »

matrix87 wrote: post #3

My problem with coffee hobbyism is it's just people constantly trying to upsell each other more expensive gear. I'm not sure why $400 for just a grinder makes sense to some people, people can get computers and phones for that money And there's this general attitude of snobbishness, like you have to spend at least 600 on gear to have a "real espresso". Pretty much r/coffee in a nutshell (r/espresso even worse). And in…

I agree about the bullshit meter. 20 years ago it was people claiming they could hear the difference if they had a headphone cable with gold-plating.

> it's just if there's no objective measure of how it's "nicer"

I think with all of these topics there is a fundamental test: make the person do a blind test and see if they can see the difference.

Sometimes people can (somebody challenged me to taste-test filtered water vs tap, a coworker could identify bottled coke vs normal) and others can't (a friend couldn't identify FLAC file vs normal).

If the person is afraid to do the test, that's a good indicator to me that they might already know it's more of a hype thing.

Re: Pour over Coffee Got Good

#20

Post by FireBeyond »

cainxinth wrote: post #5
matrix87 wrote: post #3

My problem with coffee hobbyism is it's just people constantly trying to upsell each other more expensive gear. I'm not sure why $400 for just a grinder makes sense to some people, people can get computers and phones for that money And there's this general attitude of snobbishness, like you have to spend at least 600 on gear to have a "real espresso". Pretty much r/coffee in a nutshell (r/espresso even worse). And in…

That happens in every hobby. There was just a thread on Reddit about cheeky names for people who spend too much on gear. Apparently, mountain bikers call them 007s: 0 skills, 0 style, $7,000 bike.

In photography it is a little less derogatory... GAS. Gear Acquisition Syndrome.
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