Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dawn of a new era in Search: Balancing innovation, competition, and public good

blog.kagi.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 83 posts

Re: Dawn of a new era in Search: Balancing innovation, competition, and public good

#11

Post by freediver »

abtinf wrote: post #8

This is an extremely disappointing post. In the past, I’ve enthusiastically supported and advocated for Kagi. But Kagi advocating for using force to destroy its competitors is completely unacceptable to me and an admission that they do not believe they have a viable product. Antitrust law is arbitrary and evil. If you make more money than your competitors, you have undue market power. If you price below your competit…

> But Kagi advocating for using force to destroy its competitors is completely unacceptable to me

Everyone is entitled to their own interpretation, but that is not what the article advocates at all. The article is about what is best for the user given the circumstances, where all other proposed remedies have focused on how to hurt Google, which article argues to be counter-productive.

The ruling has already been made and a remedy will be chosen whether we agree with the ruling or not - so which one is the best for the users? The solution that is proposed in the article would actually mean increased competition in the space, including to Kagi.

Re: Dawn of a new era in Search: Balancing innovation, competition, and public good

#12

Post by baggachipz »

abtinf wrote: post #8

This is an extremely disappointing post. In the past, I’ve enthusiastically supported and advocated for Kagi. But Kagi advocating for using force to destroy its competitors is completely unacceptable to me and an admission that they do not believe they have a viable product. Antitrust law is arbitrary and evil. If you make more money than your competitors, you have undue market power. If you price below your competit…

They're not advocating for the destruction of competitors. They're arguing FOR competitors. Google has already been ruled an illegal monopoly, and now it's time to figure out what to do about it. Kagi is saying that rather than split up products, require the protocols to be open and usable for all. That's it.

Re: Dawn of a new era in Search: Balancing innovation, competition, and public good

#14

Post by kingstoned »

abtinf wrote: post #8

This is an extremely disappointing post. In the past, I’ve enthusiastically supported and advocated for Kagi. But Kagi advocating for using force to destroy its competitors is completely unacceptable to me and an admission that they do not believe they have a viable product. Antitrust law is arbitrary and evil. If you make more money than your competitors, you have undue market power. If you price below your competit…

I don't see how Kagi are advocating to destroy Google and especially competitors. They write about potential actions government might do to make the field more competitive.

Keep in mind that it's the Google that was government funded when it got started via NSF and university system. Also, a ton of subsidies, tax breaks for their subsidiaries, direct payments from government (e.g. google cloud gov contracts, military recruitment ads on youtube...).

Re: Dawn of a new era in Search: Balancing innovation, competition, and public good

#15

Post by baybayblonde »

cube2222 wrote: post #6

I've been using Kagi for a while (almost two years now!) and it's been nothing but excellent! Lenses are very useful (Reddit lens is on every second search), and I personally really like the AI features they are working on. The quick assist triggered by a question mark at the end of a search query which makes a quick ai-generated summary of the few top results is something I use constantly. The new more advanced assi…

What is "Lenses", is it the Google Lens?

Re: Dawn of a new era in Search: Balancing innovation, competition, and public good

#16

Post by pennybanks »

ldayley wrote: post #2

I've been using (and occasionally paying) Kagi on and off for a couple of years now. I truly think they're building something interesting and valuable! While I haven't agreed with every product decision they've made, the founder is very good at both understanding his business and also explaining their decisions. This is a well crafted explainer of the search business and the monopoly case-- much better for sharing wi…

i honestly cant imagine paying for a search engine with whats out there for free

Re: Dawn of a new era in Search: Balancing innovation, competition, and public good

#17

Post by cube2222 »

baybayblonde wrote: post #15
cube2222 wrote: post #6

I've been using Kagi for a while (almost two years now!) and it's been nothing but excellent! Lenses are very useful (Reddit lens is on every second search), and I personally really like the AI features they are working on. The quick assist triggered by a question mark at the end of a search query which makes a quick ai-generated summary of the few top results is something I use constantly. The new more advanced assi…

What is "Lenses", is it the Google Lens?

Here's the docs[0].

It's basically a saved partial filter that you can use when searching. So you can e.g. say you only want to search reddit and have that saved as an easily-accessible button. But there's also predefined ones like "Forums" and "Academic", so that's the general idea.

The cool thing is you can enable a Lens when using the AI assistant with internet access, so its searches are also constrained to that Lens.

[0]: https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/lenses.html

Re: Dawn of a new era in Search: Balancing innovation, competition, and public good

#18

Post by xipho »

jpc0 wrote: post #9
poikroequ wrote: post #3

> Apple has stated that Bing does not match Google’s search result quality, and they are unwilling to compromise on user experience by offering subpar results. I wouldn't take this statement at face value. This is most likely a BS PR excuse for Apple to maintain their current deal with Google. I wouldn't expect anything less from any large corporation looking to protect $20 billion in annual revenue.

Universally every single time I've used bing, including this week. My response was to scroll through the entire first oage of results, swear, open google and with the exact same search params what I wanted was the first result. Bing is objectively worse.

Use DDG (Bing), append `!g` after you get nothing and search again? Do this with many many different `!`.

Re: Dawn of a new era in Search: Balancing innovation, competition, and public good

#19

Post by baggachipz »

pennybanks wrote: post #16
ldayley wrote: post #2

I've been using (and occasionally paying) Kagi on and off for a couple of years now. I truly think they're building something interesting and valuable! While I haven't agreed with every product decision they've made, the founder is very good at both understanding his business and also explaining their decisions. This is a well crafted explainer of the search business and the monopoly case-- much better for sharing wi…

i honestly cant imagine paying for a search engine with whats out there for free

Then you don't understand what you're getting. If you want to be targeted and misled by opposing incentives, that's on you.
Post reply on HN