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Any good books on why Trump has so much support in America?

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Re: Any good books on why Trump has so much support in America?

#11
Here's a recent viral post that goes over the surface level reasons for a lot of people, including back in 2020. I couldn't find the original, but the author is linked in there: https://x.com/phucdatbichcafe/status/1814657829027872804

For a more substantive analysis, I don't think there is one definitive source. I'm not sure which sources to start with, really. So it's more about a general research and watching, reading many different sources.

The explanation has something to do with the understanding that Americans do not feel represented by the American political establishment, understanding that the American political establishment and the military industrial complex are prioritizing the expansion of a kind of empire and/or influence around the world, at the expense of the citizens who pay taxes. Americans pay hundreds of billions to influence the world, but large cities are falling apart with crime, homelessness, etc.

Trump comes into the picture because he is challenging this status quo... he is not doing so in a traditional political way... because that "game" is already rigged. If you don't hack into the political game, no candidate outside of "the machine" will ever win. Trump achieved hacking this machine by being a kind of political "character" and out-playing the establishment's tactics, however the cost of doing this is that many people who don't understand this will see it as disrespectful and harmful to politics. Then his policies reflect a moderate stance that at the very least slows down the aggressive expansion of the "empire", while attempting to fix a few things at home.

That's a lot, but it doesn't even scratch the surface. I suspect this is part of the reason there are information bubbles. There is so much information that cannot really be disseminated efficiently. It's hard to talk about this and so it's hard to come to a wider consensus.

Re: Any good books on why Trump has so much support in America?

#15

This guy named JD Vance had a bit to say about it in 2016 https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/opioid-...

Crazy coincidence that this cogent anti-Trump guy has the same name as the weird chap running to be GOP Vice President in 2024.

Reading this it can't possibly be the same guy, right?

Re: Any good books on why Trump has so much support in America?

#16

[flagged]

Fun fact about The Art of the Deal: Trump was so desperately keen to have a book ghostwritten he ignorantly gave Tony Schwartz one of the best ghostwriting deals in publishing history (if not the best).

From Trump's perspective it was about the worst possible deal he could have struck if he'd approached it from the point of view the book is trying to portray.

I've always thought this to be enormously instructive about who he is. Strip away the politics, the authoritarian-populist schtick, and he fails on his own terms, again and again and again.

Re: Any good books on why Trump has so much support in America?

#17
post #9

[flagged]

Most people never read "Art of the Deal" or watched the Apprentice. From my perspective your assessment is way off. Trump has very little to do with the Republican party, and is more like its own 3rd party, but because of how the system works he had make room within the Republican party. In short, I believe most people who are considering a Trump 2nd term are seeing an out-of-control American political establishment,…

Trump is a centrist -- I think you've spotted this here.

He's an extreme populist authoritarian centrist -- a centrist dictator wannabe.

(I don't think people understand that successful dictators don't need to take a left or right position, and indeed any position they do take will ultimately be sacrificed to whichever policy choice centres power on the executive.)

Trumpism is its own thing, and this is why he beat Hillary (who was a mildly authoritarian, technocratic centrist).

The 2016 presidential election did not take place on the left-right axis. It took place on the populist-libertarian axis of the Political Compass:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Compass

He only had to gesture towards the people he wanted to vote for him, which he did without care for consistency.

Re: Any good books on why Trump has so much support in America?

#18
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people never read "Art of the Deal" or watched the Apprentice. From my perspective your assessment is way off. Trump has very little to do with the Republican party, and is more like its own 3rd party, but because of how the system works he had make room within the Republican party. In short, I believe most people who are considering a Trump 2nd term are seeing an out-of-control American political establishment,…

Trump is a centrist -- I think you've spotted this here. He's an extreme populist authoritarian centrist -- a centrist dictator wannabe. (I don't think people understand that successful dictators don't need to take a left or right position, and indeed any position they do take will ultimately be sacrificed to whichever policy choice centres power on the executive.) Trumpism is its own thing, and this is why he beat H…

All dictators take as much power as soon as they can. They get elected and immediately secure indefinite power. Trump did nothing of that sort for four years, and then arguably he was grossly negligent on J6... which would have been bad on its own if he wasn't constantly being made a martyr by people in power.

I would say "Trumpism" is just a 3rd party that had no choice but to graft on to the Republican party, and only recently has more or less consolidated power, changing the party. Before that both parties were basically aligned on almost everything, and it never mattered who was the president.

The whole dictator narrative started even before 2016 and has no evidence behind it other than some statements quoted out of context. If Trump was left alone after losing 2020, I'm pretty sure people would have moved on, so ironically or coincidentally, the people who are trying to stop him are helping him, which is what happened in 2016 as well.

Re: Any good books on why Trump has so much support in America?

#19
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is a centrist -- I think you've spotted this here. He's an extreme populist authoritarian centrist -- a centrist dictator wannabe. (I don't think people understand that successful dictators don't need to take a left or right position, and indeed any position they do take will ultimately be sacrificed to whichever policy choice centres power on the executive.) Trumpism is its own thing, and this is why he beat H…

All dictators take as much power as soon as they can. They get elected and immediately secure indefinite power. Trump did nothing of that sort for four years, and then arguably he was grossly negligent on J6... which would have been bad on its own if he wasn't constantly being made a martyr by people in power. I would say "Trumpism" is just a 3rd party that had no choice but to graft on to the Republican party, and o…

> Trump did nothing of that sort for four years

This just isn't true. Look at how he proposed to force the sale of Tiktok USA to Microsoft: purely dictatorial. And there was an enormous amount of pure strongman talk, which is a harbinger of dictatorialism.

He wasn't merely "grossly negligent" on January 6th, and anyone sane knows that. Simply because: there is no legal way the Vice President could intervene.

Everything that happened on January 6th was planned, promoted (including by Trump -- "will be wild") and deliberately focussed to put pressure on Pence to act illegally. "Mike Pence didn't have the courage".

Trump even wanted armed people to be able to gather in the protest (because they weren't coming for him).

> If Trump was left alone after losing 2020, I'm pretty sure people would have moved on

Except with all the bits where he and his campaign tried everything possible including illegal means to stay in power, on a multi-state basis.

Normal presidents don't ring up the people who run elections and ask them to "find" votes.

Re: Any good books on why Trump has so much support in America?

#20
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All dictators take as much power as soon as they can. They get elected and immediately secure indefinite power. Trump did nothing of that sort for four years, and then arguably he was grossly negligent on J6... which would have been bad on its own if he wasn't constantly being made a martyr by people in power. I would say "Trumpism" is just a 3rd party that had no choice but to graft on to the Republican party, and o…

> Trump did nothing of that sort for four years This just isn't true. Look at how he proposed to force the sale of Tiktok USA to Microsoft: purely dictatorial. And there was an enormous amount of pure strongman talk, which is a harbinger of dictatorialism. He wasn't merely "grossly negligent" on January 6th, and anyone sane knows that. Simply because: there is no legal way the Vice President could intervene. Everythi…

I disagree and most of that sounds like a biased take that is heavily influenced by all the lies and smears that were constantly being pushed for 8 years.

Let's back up before he ran for president. He was a celebrity, a businessman, appeared in movies, had a reality TV show. As soon as he wins against all projections, they start smearing him about colluding with Russia... which if true is literally treason!!... except it was all a lie and nobody cared afterward, and he was never charged with treason, and then everyone just forgot about it. If it were true we would have had president Pence. Yet nobody apologized or said "oh, i guess this was a huge lie and we messed up", absolute silence. Instead they used that as an excuse to attack him for four years, and when he lost in 2020, only THEN they admitted it was not true.

To me, this is a key event. Show me Trump colluded with Russia, and why people forgot this is treason and should be punished... or explain why nobody is holding people accountable for such a huge lie.

If they lied about that they can lie about anything, and they have. Trump is by no means a great candidate, but he is the only candidate that can withstand all of this smearing and lying, which has never happened to any other president before.

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