Using salaries in Italy, Spain, and Hungary as means of comparison and pretending they are be representative of the "European market" reeks of dishonesty. Salaries in Germany, France and UK for those same roles are 2x or sometimes 3x higher than those mentioned in the article. This is certainly a factor for migration within Europe
Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent
11–20 of 94 posts
Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent
#12Why would you move to Saudi Arabia if you can move to the US? Certainly if I had any inclination to move my target would be the US, high salaries, low taxes, wide range of companies, can choose climate/geography and even political leaning of area, etc.
I have been to Dubai, it was one of the worst places I have ever been to. Extremely unpleasant climate, revolting atmosphere of completely incoherent architecture, even culturally it seem to have just adopted the worst consumerism of the west and transplanted it into their native culture. I am not sure what money could even compell me to live there.
Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent
#13Pretty much. Salaries across Europe are extremely low compared to similar roles at a similar caliber abroad.
Hard to disagree, but have you seen abroad? Seems like outside Europe you're at a constant one health crisis away from homelessness. Is that even an exaggeration at this point? https://i.redd.it/e2u2h3la7e1b1.jpg
I think you are completely delusional about the US. They have healthcare as well, you know, they just pay it from their paycheck and it isn't deducted from their salary.
>homelessness
In Germany the state guarantees you housing. Yet it has a far bigger homelessness problem than the US.
Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent
#14Using salaries in Italy, Spain, and Hungary as means of comparison and pretending they are be representative of the "European market" reeks of dishonesty. Salaries in Germany, France and UK for those same roles are 2x or sometimes 3x higher than those mentioned in the article. This is certainly a factor for migration within Europe
And yet half of the ones in the US. At least based on when I got some offers last year when I was considering moving to Europe
Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent
#15The underlying thesis of the article is that high salaries in the Gulf will outweigh the downsides of working in low-rule-of-law authoritarian states with onerously rigid managerial and social structures, which ... might work out for some folks, but if you haven't worked with Gulf-domiciled companies before I wouldn't recommend signing a long-term contract before testing out those waters.
I was under the impression that for ordinary commercial stuff that won’t touch politics that Dubai at least was pretty tame? Or at least fairly low on the corruption index.
Depends on your circumstances.
My cousin worked there quite a while back so things may have moved on but 2 experiences he told me where reasons I wouldn't ever work there.
1. His wife was involved in an accident with an immigrant worker. She was fine, they weren't. She tried to insist on the Dubai police calling an ambulance. They flatly refused as they didn't value the immigrant workers life and threatened her with arrest and jail if she didn't leave immediately, on the basis if she hadn't been in the country the accident wouldn't have happened.
2. They and their other friends had pacts that if either couple both died they would immediately take their children out of the country, as otherwise they became wards of the state, which is almost impossible to reverse.
Corruption is rife too but the cultural differences and consequences are if anything more significant.
Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent
#16Why would you move to Saudi Arabia if you can move to the US? Certainly if I had any inclination to move my target would be the US, high salaries, low taxes, wide range of companies, can choose climate/geography and even political leaning of area, etc. I have been to Dubai, it was one of the worst places I have ever been to. Extremely unpleasant climate, revolting atmosphere of completely incoherent architecture, eve…
Dubai has far looser work visa and banking laws. And low taxation. Infrastructure may not be as cheap but it is accessible.
If your goal is to get in make money and leave Dubai might be a lot more approachable from both company owner and employee perspective.
Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent
#17Using salaries in Italy, Spain, and Hungary as means of comparison and pretending they are be representative of the "European market" reeks of dishonesty. Salaries in Germany, France and UK for those same roles are 2x or sometimes 3x higher than those mentioned in the article. This is certainly a factor for migration within Europe
And yet half of the ones in the US. At least based on when I got some offers last year when I was considering moving to Europe
London is competitive with tier 2 US cities (i.e. not SF/NYC/Seattle). Switzerland is competitive even with Tier 1 US cities. COL and taxes are higher though.
Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
Frankly speaking, European healthcare does not seem that attractive to me versus decent to good employer backed American insurance. I’d rather have a (often significantly) bigger US salary. If there is a healthcare system that I’m envious of, it’s those of some East Asian countries. I know of some Asian-Americans in the US that do medical tourism to Asia despite having company insurance. Ends up being not only less e…
Aside from the usury of US healthcare, even with insurance from your employer, dealing with the healthcare in Canada is a dream to the US. You might have to wait to see a doctor (most people probably still have to wait in the US if you're lucky enough to get treatment), but there's essentially no fight with layers and layers of occult insurance for anything you get a referral from a doctor for. No surprise or hidden…
Is there a way to find out which CGRP medications for migraines are covered by which provincial health plans? Seems like a few of them are available if you have private insurance. Or if you could pay the fairly steep costs out of pocket.
Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet half of the ones in the US. At least based on when I got some offers last year when I was considering moving to Europe
London is competitive with tier 2 US cities (i.e. not SF/NYC/Seattle). Switzerland is competitive even with Tier 1 US cities. COL and taxes are higher though.
So it’s not competitive if taxes are higher and COL is higher. What one cares about is the final income in pocket and purchasing power. I don’t really care if my salary says “1 million” if I keep 50k of that, I only care about the final number unless there is some tax loophole one can exercise like pre tax deductions, but still…
Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent
#20Why would you move to Saudi Arabia if you can move to the US? Certainly if I had any inclination to move my target would be the US, high salaries, low taxes, wide range of companies, can choose climate/geography and even political leaning of area, etc. I have been to Dubai, it was one of the worst places I have ever been to. Extremely unpleasant climate, revolting atmosphere of completely incoherent architecture, eve…
Dubai has far looser work visa and banking laws. And low taxation. Infrastructure may not be as cheap but it is accessible. If your goal is to get in make money and leave Dubai might be a lot more approachable from both company owner and employee perspective.
>If your goal is to get in make money and leave Dubai might be a lot more approachable from both company owner and employee perspective.
Sure, but if we are talking about a place to move to and live the US is definitely my preferred choice.