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Why privacy is important, and having "nothing to hide" is irrelevant (2016)

robindoherty.com

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Re: Why privacy is important, and having "nothing to hide" is irrelevant (2016)

#11

Post by advael »

I think most people who say "I have nothing to hide" are just mimicking a slogan they no doubt heard someone they respect or at least think talks well say

Another common refrain, especially since Snowden, is just glib defeatism ("they already have all my info anyway") which is also a poor way to think about policy (and to make personal choices, but I won't argue those with most people)

I really think the main reason people are complacent is more often that the spying is abstract to them. They wouldn't like it if someone were pointing a big camera through their window, but data being aggregated through their phone and smart home gadgets and computer and CCTVs in public places and leaks on distant websites doesn't register in their actual attention, so it doesn't emotionally feel like a big deal to them

Re: Why privacy is important, and having "nothing to hide" is irrelevant (2016)

#14

Post by Zelphyr »

amelius wrote: post #7
Zelphyr wrote: post #3

When people say, “I have nothing to hide.” I remind them that they have a door on their bathroom and curtains over their windows for perfectly innocent yet no less valid reasons.

Also, I ask them what they earn.

Also what their debit card pin is or what their email and bank account passwords are.

Re: Why privacy is important, and having "nothing to hide" is irrelevant (2016)

#15

Post by [deleted] »

spencerchubb wrote: post #4
Zelphyr wrote: post #3

When people say, “I have nothing to hide.” I remind them that they have a door on their bathroom and curtains over their windows for perfectly innocent yet no less valid reasons.

I have curtains not because I feel compelled to hide, but because outsiders don't want to see what happens in my home.

[deleted]

Re: Why privacy is important, and having "nothing to hide" is irrelevant (2016)

#16

Post by Terr_ »

Many "nothing to hide" proponents implicitly assume the only problem involves fact-based investigation by mostly-principled agents of a non-corrupt regime that has the same values people are comfy with today. However that's nowhere near the whole issue.

We should also be scared of cases where some investigator or agency goes: "We need to make an example of somebody and That Dude is close enough."

Or where regime changes and suddenly everything you didn't care about is dangerous and does need to be hidden, like where volunteering in a pro-democracy group or having an abortion retroactively becomes a sentence to the reeducation gulag.

> Cheery was aware that Commander Vimes didn't like the phrase 'The innocent have nothing to fear', believing the innocent had everything to fear, mostly from the guilty but in the longer term even more from those who say things like 'The innocent have nothing to fear'.

-- Snuff by Terry Pratchett

Re: Why privacy is important, and having "nothing to hide" is irrelevant (2016)

#17

Post by riversflow »

Zelphyr wrote: post #3

When people say, “I have nothing to hide.” I remind them that they have a door on their bathroom and curtains over their windows for perfectly innocent yet no less valid reasons.

I only use those things because of others.

Re: Why privacy is important, and having "nothing to hide" is irrelevant (2016)

#19

Post by IndySun »

Zelphyr wrote: post #3

When people say, “I have nothing to hide.” I remind them that they have a door on their bathroom and curtains over their windows for perfectly innocent yet no less valid reasons.

>...When people say, “I have nothing to hide.” I remind them that they have a door on their bathroom...

This was my 'go to' question for several years but it wasn't long until I met someone (we're actually now good friends) who gladly leaves the loo door open and do whatever in full view of anyone. From there I ended up with sturdier concepts, some listed below.

Re: Why privacy is important, and having "nothing to hide" is irrelevant (2016)

#20

Post by adolph »

you self-censor as a result, the rest of us lose your perspective, and the development of further ideas is stifled.

This component of privacy reminds me of “Preference Falsification,” a phenomenon described by Taimur Kuran. Although Kuran’s examples are often of Eastern Europe, this essay puts it in terms of US politics of 50 years ago.

https://www.econlib.org/how-timur-kuran-changed-my-thinking/

Important paper to recommend as always, Soloave’s “ 'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy” written after the article but by a thinker who is cited in it.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565

And also “Ham Sandwich Nation: Due Process When Everything is a Crime”

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2203713

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