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London, Paris, Seoul Show Commuting Power of Fast Regional Rail

bloomberg.com

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Re: London, Paris, Seoul Show Commuting Power of Fast Regional Rail

#11

Post by sofixa »

teractiveodular wrote: post #2

This article really needs to mention Japan, who pioneered and perfected the idea and its smooth integration into the subway network. It's common in Tokyo for a train to start as a limited express that travels long distances at speed, then transition into an all-stops subway, tunnel through Tokyo, and then morph back into an express for the long haul out. Some trains on the Toyoko Line do this twice: express, subway i…

Doesn't this describe the Metropolitan line in London, which is the first one?

And that's not how the Parisian RER works - they have very few stops in the city of Paris itself, to prioritise long distance travel and make it faster (somewhat as a reaction to how unsuited the Paris metro, which has a ridiculously dense stop network, is for long distances).

Re: London, Paris, Seoul Show Commuting Power of Fast Regional Rail

#12

Post by andbberger »

phh wrote: post #3

> Trains arrive as often as every three minutes during peak hours along the central spines of both the Elizabeth Line and the RER Line A. I've taken the RER A everyday for few years (both and after automation), and that frequency combined with its size still puts me in awe. My usual connection with RER A, I arrive at the middle of the train platform, and my next connection is at the end of the train. Statistically I…

horrible to come back to the states after becoming acquainted with the paris metro & friends

Re: London, Paris, Seoul Show Commuting Power of Fast Regional Rail

#14

Post by karaokeyoga »

baxtr wrote: post #4
teractiveodular wrote: post #2

This article really needs to mention Japan, who pioneered and perfected the idea and its smooth integration into the subway network. It's common in Tokyo for a train to start as a limited express that travels long distances at speed, then transition into an all-stops subway, tunnel through Tokyo, and then morph back into an express for the long haul out. Some trains on the Toyoko Line do this twice: express, subway i…

Could you share a link with more details?

Here's a somewhat morbid link that really hit home how far these Tokyo-area trains can travel in a day (suburban express to urban and back again, times four):

https://soranews24.com/2024/07/03/man-passes-away-on-tokyo-t...

Re: London, Paris, Seoul Show Commuting Power of Fast Regional Rail

#16

Post by phh »

zefr0g wrote: post #6
phh wrote: post #3

> Trains arrive as often as every three minutes during peak hours along the central spines of both the Elizabeth Line and the RER Line A. I've taken the RER A everyday for few years (both and after automation), and that frequency combined with its size still puts me in awe. My usual connection with RER A, I arrive at the middle of the train platform, and my next connection is at the end of the train. Statistically I…

Took it for a few years too, I think the frequency can be as much as every 90 seconds.

Yes, but they realized that at that point the problem is no longer the trains but people. You can't reliably board people that fast. IIRC, they moved from theoretical every 2 minutes to theoretical 2 minutes 30, and largely improve their throughput. But yes when there is congestion trains can go faster than 2 minutes 30 when relevant.

Re: London, Paris, Seoul Show Commuting Power of Fast Regional Rail

#17

Post by baud147258 »

sofixa wrote: post #11
teractiveodular wrote: post #2

This article really needs to mention Japan, who pioneered and perfected the idea and its smooth integration into the subway network. It's common in Tokyo for a train to start as a limited express that travels long distances at speed, then transition into an all-stops subway, tunnel through Tokyo, and then morph back into an express for the long haul out. Some trains on the Toyoko Line do this twice: express, subway i…

Doesn't this describe the Metropolitan line in London, which is the first one? And that's not how the Parisian RER works - they have very few stops in the city of Paris itself, to prioritise long distance travel and make it faster (somewhat as a reaction to how unsuited the Paris metro, which has a ridiculously dense stop network, is for long distances).

> the Paris metro, which has a ridiculously dense stop network, is for long distances

I think it's interesting how the most recent line (n° 14) has way less stops, instead focusing on covering more distance

Re: London, Paris, Seoul Show Commuting Power of Fast Regional Rail

#18

Post by sofixa »

baud147258 wrote: post #17
sofixa wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't this describe the Metropolitan line in London, which is the first one? And that's not how the Parisian RER works - they have very few stops in the city of Paris itself, to prioritise long distance travel and make it faster (somewhat as a reaction to how unsuited the Paris metro, which has a ridiculously dense stop network, is for long distances).

> the Paris metro, which has a ridiculously dense stop network, is for long distances I think it's interesting how the most recent line (n° 14) has way less stops, instead focusing on covering more distance

Yep, because a big part of the drive for it is to reduce the overcrowding on the lines 1 and A, and thus it needed to be as fast as possible to actually be competitive with them.

Funnily this was so successful this led to overcrowding on the 14, hence the extension of the line E to take some of the traffic from the 1, A and 14; and the 14 itself was extended to connect one of the airports and a bunch of suburbs under heavy redevelopment.

Re: London, Paris, Seoul Show Commuting Power of Fast Regional Rail

#19

Post by Nesco »

kylegalbraith wrote: post #9

This was a great read. As an American who is currently living in France, I'm always blown away by how easy it is for me to get just about anywhere via train.

America is way less dense than France and Europe at large. Only in BoWash such an high density network would make sense

Re: London, Paris, Seoul Show Commuting Power of Fast Regional Rail

#20

Post by 88 »

Odd to see the Elizabeth Line (Crossrail) presented in such a positive light.

As an engineering project Crossrail became famous for being repeatedly delayed (eventually opening four years late) and many billions over budget.

Since opening the Elizabeth Line has been beset by high numbers of service cancellations and poor punctuality (usually blamed on having to share track outside the central tunnel section with other operators).

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