DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system • Hacker News Board

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#11

Post by plorkyeran » Fri, Jul 05, 2024, 10:43 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #2

20kg? Actual trail riders spend hundreds to thousands shaving grams off their bikes. I think this is just another attempt to break e-bikes away from being a distinct product, to keep the "e" an optional upgrade to whatever bike the customer already owns.

Approximately no one is paying thousands of dollars to shave grams off an eMTB. There is a small but visible group of people doing that for road bikes and a much smaller group of people doing that for non-electric mountain bikes. There's probably some weirdo out there doing it for an electric mountain bike but they're probably more of a "decorative expensive bike purchaser" than an "actual trail rider".

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#12

Post by plorkyeran » Fri, Jul 05, 2024, 10:45 PM UTC

slau wrote: post #7

demondemidi wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual trail riders mostly do not do this. Source: worked at a bike store. People with a lot of money that treat their bike as something to optimize and not something to ride do this. I'm not saying its wrong, its just another way of being a bike enthusiast, but this type rarely overlaps with serious riders. Training improves performance, not $3000 wheels that shave off 50 grams.

Agreed. For most people it would be more reasonable to lose the three-four kg in body fat and keep the aluminium frame rather than upgrading to carbon fibre.

Unless you have found a way to spend a few thousand dollars to make 3-4 kg of body fat magically disappear with no complications or effort, losing weight and spending more on a bike are not things you're choosing between.

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#13

Post by metadat » Fri, Jul 05, 2024, 10:46 PM UTC

> The integrated DJI Avinox electric power assist system leverages DJI's cutting-edge technologies in both software and hardware design, offering 850 W of peak power (250 W nominal power) in an ultra-light body of 19.2kg

This is most unimpressive. I have an 2019 3000w LunaCycle e-mountain bike (based on the Giant Anthem) with similar drive system weight specs, which includes the ginormous 40ah battery.

Why can't DJI compete with something nice from 5 years ago?

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#14

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel » Fri, Jul 05, 2024, 10:47 PM UTC

sottol wrote: post #4

I don't know that I see anything revolutionary? The peak power seems maybe higher than Bosch CX at 850W vs 600 but continuous power is similar 250W. 800Wh max battery pack size is also not entirely out of the ordinary. The packaging seems nice, the battery seems quite slim and integrate well into ordinary-looking downtube on the Amflow bike - but don't see much otherwise. Weight seems on the high side.

More than 250W continuous is pointless in many countries because that's the limit for the most common e-bike class (i.e. even if the system can do more, you'd want to de-rate it to 250W).

Bosch makes excellent motors, but they're ripping people off on accessories (a dumb charger costs 89 EUR in the "compact" variant that can do 2A or around 80W and weighs 600g, needing over 10 hours to charge a large battery), and enabling this with aggressive DRM (which also means updates can only be done by a repair shop). They're also trying to make your bike a subscription, of course.

So even if all DJI does is become competitive, that's already a win. Bonus points if they actually let you tune (some) motor parameters yourself. The hard part seems to be reliability (a bike that gets mud, water and washing together with constant vibration is a pretty harsh environment) and many Chinese motor brands have a less than stellar reputation there, and because this is not something easily testable, building a reputation (and gathering the experience needed to actually build good products) takes time.

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#15

Post by unsigner » Fri, Jul 05, 2024, 10:48 PM UTC

plorkyeran wrote: post #12

slau wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. For most people it would be more reasonable to lose the three-four kg in body fat and keep the aluminium frame rather than upgrading to carbon fibre.

Unless you have found a way to spend a few thousand dollars to make 3-4 kg of body fat magically disappear with no complications or effort, losing weight and spending more on a bike are not things you're choosing between.

semaglutide comes pretty close to "a few thousand dollars to make 3-4 kg of body fat magically disappear with no complications or effort"

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#16

Post by sandworm101 » Fri, Jul 05, 2024, 10:49 PM UTC

demondemidi wrote: post #6

sandworm101 wrote: post #2

20kg? Actual trail riders spend hundreds to thousands shaving grams off their bikes. I think this is just another attempt to break e-bikes away from being a distinct product, to keep the "e" an optional upgrade to whatever bike the customer already owns.

Actual trail riders mostly do not do this. Source: worked at a bike store. People with a lot of money that treat their bike as something to optimize and not something to ride do this. I'm not saying its wrong, its just another way of being a bike enthusiast, but this type rarely overlaps with serious riders. Training improves performance, not $3000 wheels that shave off 50 grams.

At least in the pacific northwest, mounting biking isn't just about riding the bike any more than owning a motorcycle is just about riding a motorcycle. It's a culture or talking about and bragging about bike tech. Weight is bragging rights for mountain bikes as "aero" is for road bikes. Lots of people will pay to have the better toy. The running joke is that many bikes are worth more than the cars that bring them to the trailheads.

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#17

Post by bagels » Fri, Jul 05, 2024, 10:51 PM UTC

metadat wrote: post #13

> The integrated DJI Avinox electric power assist system leverages DJI's cutting-edge technologies in both software and hardware design, offering 850 W of peak power (250 W nominal power) in an ultra-light body of 19.2kg This is most unimpressive. I have an 2019 3000w LunaCycle e-mountain bike (based on the Giant Anthem) with similar drive system weight specs, which includes the ginormous 40ah battery. Why can't DJI…

Is that a legal bike in your jurisdiction? In California you're riding an unregistered moped, illegally, most likely.

I suspect DJI is aiming for legal bikes that established bicycle manufacturers can sell.

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#18

Post by rdl » Fri, Jul 05, 2024, 10:52 PM UTC

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #14

sottol wrote: post #4

I don't know that I see anything revolutionary? The peak power seems maybe higher than Bosch CX at 850W vs 600 but continuous power is similar 250W. 800Wh max battery pack size is also not entirely out of the ordinary. The packaging seems nice, the battery seems quite slim and integrate well into ordinary-looking downtube on the Amflow bike - but don't see much otherwise. Weight seems on the high side.

More than 250W continuous is pointless in many countries because that's the limit for the most common e-bike class (i.e. even if the system can do more, you'd want to de-rate it to 250W). Bosch makes excellent motors, but they're ripping people off on accessories (a dumb charger costs 89 EUR in the "compact" variant that can do 2A or around 80W and weighs 600g, needing over 10 hours to charge a large battery), and en…

I assume price would be the major factor. Also, as someone who knows nothing about e-bikes, but who knows "DJI makes good cheap drones and gimbals", they'd be pretty high on my list of "probably makes an ok product" without searching.

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#19

Post by bluescrn » Fri, Jul 05, 2024, 10:52 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #2

20kg? Actual trail riders spend hundreds to thousands shaving grams off their bikes. I think this is just another attempt to break e-bikes away from being a distinct product, to keep the "e" an optional upgrade to whatever bike the customer already owns.

I don't think competitive e-biking is a thing. And if you're commuting or riding recreationally, you probably don't care much about weight.

And this looks like a competitor for the Bosch systems that power many e-bikes, needing a similar frame design - and not a kit to install on non-electric bikes.

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#20

Post by Zigurd » Fri, Jul 05, 2024, 10:58 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #2

20kg? Actual trail riders spend hundreds to thousands shaving grams off their bikes. I think this is just another attempt to break e-bikes away from being a distinct product, to keep the "e" an optional upgrade to whatever bike the customer already owns.

20kg is fairly light for an e-mtb. I'd bet typical use is to climb the uphill paths on an mtb trail system, even though the bike they mention isn't a dedicated DH bike.