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Unlocking a Gary TL-15 Round-Door Safe (2009)

locksmithledger.com

11–20 of 52 posts

Re: Unlocking a Gary TL-15 Round-Door Safe (2009)

#11
I once bought a vacation home that was a century-old English cottage that went through 7 different owners over time. It once belonged to a US state senator. Another time it belonged to a prominent local businessman who went to jail for white collar crime, and went through a nasty divorce. Anyway, the house had a TL-15 Star Safe embedded in the wall in the master bedroom. The previous owner did not know the combination. Neither did the owner before him. Some unknown person at some point had attempted to open it, as the safe had 3 drill holes on the face plate.

There was a very old sticker on the safe bearing the name of the company who apparently installed it. The phone number was so old it did not have an area code. Fortunately the company still existed after multiple decades. I called them and asked if they could open it in a non-destructive way. One of their technicians came, looked at it and probed it for a couple hours, but determined he could not open it. And the combination had been changed from the manufacturer's default. He gave me the contact info for a reputed safe technician who could help.

Later I called this safe technician, but he was incredibly difficult to get a hold of. I had to leave multiple voicemails and send multiple emails. We chatted briefly one time and he said he would get back to me later to schedule an appointment. But he seemed half-retired and not interested in the job, as I never heard back, despite multiple contact attempts and my offer to pay handsomely. Eventually I became frustrated with his non-responsiveness and stopped caring about the safe.

Fast forward a few years later, I was going to sell the vacation home, but I really wanted to open the safe before selling. Curiosity had gotten to me. I searched online for another safe technician, and found a supposedly reliable guy. I arranged an appointment. He showed up a few days later. I asked him to open it any way he could, even if he had to destroy the safe. He started drilling, making multiple holes over the course of 2 hours. Eventually he came to me and said he ran out of drill bits as they all got worn out. He had to leave and promised he would be back.

It took one week for him to eventually come back early one morning with more drill bits. He spent another couple hours drilling. Then he put a camera scope in the holes and claimed he could see 3 of the 5 wheels spin while the other 2 were broken. He spent an entire day trying to manipulate the wheels. But after a whole day of work, he came to me with a defeated look and apologized saying he was sorry but he doesn't think he is able to open the safe.

I went back online to find yet another professional who could help. I learned that what I really needed to look for is a professional who is a member of SAVTA (Safe & Vault Technicians Association). So I found a SAVTA tech who on the phone told me a TL-15 safe in a residence is unusual as it is normally made for businesses like a jewelry store. Unfortunately he said his next availability would be about a month from now, and I was going to sell the house in the coming weeks.

Eventually I found another SAVTA tech who was available on a short notice. He and a colleague both arrived a morning, and it took them 3 hours to do more drilling and more manipulation to FINALLY open the safe.

Guess what was in it?

Nothing. It was empty! I closed the sale of the house literally 2 weeks later. I was still very relieved to have gone through this hassle to open it. The unsatisfied curiosity if it had not been open would have eaten me alive :) Also I decided in my next house I wanted a safe rated TL-15, as clearly they can withstand a lot.

Re: Unlocking a Gary TL-15 Round-Door Safe (2009)

#12
post #11

I once bought a vacation home that was a century-old English cottage that went through 7 different owners over time. It once belonged to a US state senator. Another time it belonged to a prominent local businessman who went to jail for white collar crime, and went through a nasty divorce. Anyway, the house had a TL-15 Star Safe embedded in the wall in the master bedroom. The previous owner did not know the combinatio…

There was a time that you could've gotten a lot of Reddit karma by releasing the story in breathless installments. :)

(Good story, and have an HN Buck.)

Re: Unlocking a Gary TL-15 Round-Door Safe (2009)

#14

I don't think I've ever encountered such an over-monetized site. Every square mm of space has an ad. Then pop ups will spontaneously cover existing ads. I can't even find the content.

Install a content blocker - uBlock Origin on a browser which does not try to thwart its purposes, i.e. Firefox or similar - and you won't see a single ad or pop-up on that site.

Re: Unlocking a Gary TL-15 Round-Door Safe (2009)

#15
These "sergeant greenleaf" locksets are old but common in military/national security use around the world, although military models have a couple extra security features not sold to the public. They are amazing devices. They are 99.9999999% reliable for decades without any maintenance but nevertheless can take a beating. The combination can be changed in seconds. Recovering a forgotten combo is possible with only a screwdriver, so long as the safe is still open. Most are or have been replaced by digital locks, but I've always liked Sergeant Greenleaf.

Re: Unlocking a Gary TL-15 Round-Door Safe (2009)

#16
post #3

I just posted this amateur documentary about a guy that prides himself in saving safes from the drill. He only does manipulation. He uses a stethoscope and sometimes a laser pointer to visualize the wheel angles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hz_kjTc8DQ

The first thing I though about when listening to his description of moving the dial was a servo motor with a torque measuring shaft hooked to a microcontroller. It sounds like you could just graph torque required to turn it over 360 degrees to get the same info he was getting.

Re: Unlocking a Gary TL-15 Round-Door Safe (2009)

#17

These "sergeant greenleaf" locksets are old but common in military/national security use around the world, although military models have a couple extra security features not sold to the public. They are amazing devices. They are 99.9999999% reliable for decades without any maintenance but nevertheless can take a beating. The combination can be changed in seconds. Recovering a forgotten combo is possible with only a s…

Is that the same or different from the padlock style ones I see being used to secure military equipment?

Re: Unlocking a Gary TL-15 Round-Door Safe (2009)

#18
post #3

I just posted this amateur documentary about a guy that prides himself in saving safes from the drill. He only does manipulation. He uses a stethoscope and sometimes a laser pointer to visualize the wheel angles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hz_kjTc8DQ

The first thing I though about when listening to his description of moving the dial was a servo motor with a torque measuring shaft hooked to a microcontroller. It sounds like you could just graph torque required to turn it over 360 degrees to get the same info he was getting.

This is called the "soft drill". And strangely, this can still be a destructive attack. There are systems that can do proper manipulation by graphing out the gates, and there are systems that just do brute force attacks by dialing every combination. I've been told that the brute force machines that try every combination typically wear the lock out and it needs to be replaced afterwords.

Re: Unlocking a Gary TL-15 Round-Door Safe (2009)

#19

These "sergeant greenleaf" locksets are old but common in military/national security use around the world, although military models have a couple extra security features not sold to the public. They are amazing devices. They are 99.9999999% reliable for decades without any maintenance but nevertheless can take a beating. The combination can be changed in seconds. Recovering a forgotten combo is possible with only a s…

Is that the same or different from the padlock style ones I see being used to secure military equipment?

Same company makes both combination dials and the large padlocks like the 831, 833, 851. I was lucky enough to tour their manufacturing facility, it's a typical machine shop plus a small foundry as they do their own casting on-site too.

Re: Unlocking a Gary TL-15 Round-Door Safe (2009)

#20

These "sergeant greenleaf" locksets are old but common in military/national security use around the world, although military models have a couple extra security features not sold to the public. They are amazing devices. They are 99.9999999% reliable for decades without any maintenance but nevertheless can take a beating. The combination can be changed in seconds. Recovering a forgotten combo is possible with only a s…

Is that the same or different from the padlock style ones I see being used to secure military equipment?

S&G padlocks are evil. They are hateful devices. The inner working are broadly similar to the full-sized dials but are fiddly little demons. Changing their codes never goes properly, and recovering from a lost code requires multiple special keys. I know of boxes containing dozens of "bricked" S&G padlocks that people have given up trying to use. The difference in design and build quality makes it hard to believe both are made by the same people.

https://mbausa.com/content/downloadfiles/8077_Combo_Recovery...

https://mbausa.com/s-g-padlock-combo-recovery-set/

Compare with the easy change procedure for dials: https://homelandsafes.com/how-to-change-the-combination-on-a...

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