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The Dream of an Alpine Waterway

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Re: The Dream of an Alpine Waterway

#11

Post by cproctor »

dredmorbius wrote: post #9

I'm not an expert in this area, though the efficiencies of canal systems have interested me greatly in recent years. What's interesting to me is that even today, few canal systems seem to have elevation gains of more than a few metres. Among the greatest lifts I'm aware of are the Erie Canal (no longer commercially operated, though accessible by pleasure craft), which rises 174m (571 ft) above sea level. Canada's Tre…

I paddled through the Erie Canal's locks in Lockport (where I live) last weekend! A lot of history passed through here.

Re: The Dream of an Alpine Waterway

#12

Post by Joe8Bit »

dredmorbius wrote: post #9

I'm not an expert in this area, though the efficiencies of canal systems have interested me greatly in recent years. What's interesting to me is that even today, few canal systems seem to have elevation gains of more than a few metres. Among the greatest lifts I'm aware of are the Erie Canal (no longer commercially operated, though accessible by pleasure craft), which rises 174m (571 ft) above sea level. Canada's Tre…

As far as I remember the South Penine Ring[0] in Northern England has a max elevation of ~200m/~650ft.

0: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pennine_Ring

Re: The Dream of an Alpine Waterway

#13

Post by Taniwha »

ano-ther wrote: post #7

Is there a demonstration of the locks somewhere? From the patent it sounds like a tunnel that gets flooded which lifts the ship. The tunnel must be really large because it has to fit the ship at an angle and not just head on. https://patents.google.com/patent/US955317A/en

It's really more a pipe than a tunnel, the whole pipe needs to be able to support the weight of the boat and all the water to the top of each step

Re: The Dream of an Alpine Waterway

#15

Post by dredmorbius »

foota wrote: post #10
dredmorbius wrote: post #9

I'm not an expert in this area, though the efficiencies of canal systems have interested me greatly in recent years. What's interesting to me is that even today, few canal systems seem to have elevation gains of more than a few metres. Among the greatest lifts I'm aware of are the Erie Canal (no longer commercially operated, though accessible by pleasure craft), which rises 174m (571 ft) above sea level. Canada's Tre…

My guess is that this is more about practicality than anything. There's hardly a need for such high elevation locks I think, and where there is, tunneling is better.

Or freight modalities which can handle grades intrinsically: rail, trucks, tramways, conveyor belts, sluices (for bulk goods).

I'm trying to think of regions where water-based high elevation gain might be at least within contemplation.

Re: The Dream of an Alpine Waterway

#16

Post by dredmorbius »

metabagel wrote: post #5
ur-whale wrote: post #4

This was back in the days when folks in Europe were still capable of doing really ambitious technical things. That particular project may have turned not to be economically viable, but it was at the very least thought of and studied seriously. That kind of burning flame has now died miserably, and all Europe is now capable of doing is keeping the lights on.

High speed rail? The large hadron collider at CERN? Also, Rail Baltica… https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/09/16/the-high-speed-rail...

Also: Concorde. The Chunnel. The Gotthard Base Tunnel. The Øresund Bridge/Tunnel. Airbus A-380. Numerous flood barriers and barricades (Thames, Netherlands, Venice, ...). European Southern Observatory.[1]

Proposals for bridging the Straits of Gibraltar, Norway's E39 project, the EU project as a whole, and Energiewende (and its various national counterparts) would also strike me as major forward-thinking endeavours.

________________________________

Notes:

1. My focus is on technical rather than economic success here, though each project mentioned here did go operational, and all but Concorde remain so. Economic viability is a challenge for most megaprojects.

Re: The Dream of an Alpine Waterway

#18

Post by jb69 »

dredmorbius wrote: post #9

I'm not an expert in this area, though the efficiencies of canal systems have interested me greatly in recent years. What's interesting to me is that even today, few canal systems seem to have elevation gains of more than a few metres. Among the greatest lifts I'm aware of are the Erie Canal (no longer commercially operated, though accessible by pleasure craft), which rises 174m (571 ft) above sea level. Canada's Tre…

You have Canal du midi:189meter (max height) and 249m (ascending elevation) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_du_Midi

Re: The Dream of an Alpine Waterway

#19

Post by nico_h »

Animats wrote: post #14

That thing is scary. If a boat on an uphill tunnel doesn't keep moving forward to keep up with the rising water, the boat is forced against the top of the tunnel and everybody drowns.

You can probably put a catenary with wheels on top of your boat and alongside to forward sides to ensure pushing it against the roof pushes your boat forward.

Re: The Dream of an Alpine Waterway

#20

Post by supermatt »

throw-the-towel wrote: post #8
metabagel wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High speed rail? The large hadron collider at CERN? Also, Rail Baltica… https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/09/16/the-high-speed-rail...

You mean the same Rail Baltica that has been delayed since forever?

Im not familiar with that one. I think he must mean the other Rail Baltica that was scheduled for 2025 but is now delayed until 2030
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