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Took part in Apache ceremonies. schools expelled them for satanic activities

theguardian.com

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Re: Took part in Apache ceremonies. schools expelled them for satanic activities

#11

Post by defrost »

Bonolio wrote: post #10
shiroiushi wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"We" are collective humanity. No, "we" are not. This kind of silliness doesn't happen in most civilized places. Even in the US. This incident is an outlier. >These things seem to be happening more and more. Go back 100 years and you'll see it was much worse. Sure, parts of the US seem to be backsliding a bit, but that doesn't mean every place is. 95% of the world's population lives outside the US, remember. >Stories…

The bigger problem, at least in my opinion, is that these outliers are more emboldened with their opinions in recent years.

Less emboldened in comparison with the 1900s - 1940s.

The heyday of Residential Schools and indigenous removal programs across Canada, the US, Australia, etc was mainstream and a slick industrialised pipeline of capturing children to beat the Indian from them (actual quote).

There might well be some recent uptake towards that direction, but back in the day these were not outliers, these were central government programs backed by church and "science" (eugenic based arguments).

Re: Took part in Apache ceremonies. schools expelled them for satanic activities

#13

Post by qarl »

shiroiushi wrote: post #9
qarl wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what your point is. "We" are collective humanity. These things seem to be happening more and more. Stories that sound like they're from 100 years ago occur today with growing frequency. It appears "we" are going backwards.

>"We" are collective humanity. No, "we" are not. This kind of silliness doesn't happen in most civilized places. Even in the US. This incident is an outlier. >These things seem to be happening more and more. Go back 100 years and you'll see it was much worse. Sure, parts of the US seem to be backsliding a bit, but that doesn't mean every place is. 95% of the world's population lives outside the US, remember. >Stories…

> This incident is an outlier.

I disagree. From my perspective, things that I could never imagine happening in the U.S. are happening with increasing frequency. I could cite an extensive list, but the list is already well known - I can only imagine you're in some kind of denial.

Add this item to the list and wait for the next, tomorrow.

Re: Took part in Apache ceremonies. schools expelled them for satanic activities

#14

Post by 39896880 »

shiroiushi wrote: post #5
qarl wrote: post #3

We're going backwards.

Who's "we"? This was about a private Lutheran school. It's ridiculous of course, but if you sign up for a private school, you have to put up with whatever ridiculous BS they want to push on you, no matter how medieval. My question is: why are these people sending their kids to this shitty school? This is the whole reason public education exists.

Public schools aren’t very good on reservations.

Re: Took part in Apache ceremonies. schools expelled them for satanic activities

#15

Post by shiroiushi »

39896880 wrote: post #14
shiroiushi wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's "we"? This was about a private Lutheran school. It's ridiculous of course, but if you sign up for a private school, you have to put up with whatever ridiculous BS they want to push on you, no matter how medieval. My question is: why are these people sending their kids to this shitty school? This is the whole reason public education exists.

Public schools aren’t very good on reservations.

I would think that just about any school would be better than a school which teaches kids their traditional ceremonies are "devil worship". If the schools are that bad, you're better off resorting to home-schooling.

Re: Took part in Apache ceremonies. schools expelled them for satanic activities

#16

Post by shiroiushi »

qarl wrote: post #13
shiroiushi wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"We" are collective humanity. No, "we" are not. This kind of silliness doesn't happen in most civilized places. Even in the US. This incident is an outlier. >These things seem to be happening more and more. Go back 100 years and you'll see it was much worse. Sure, parts of the US seem to be backsliding a bit, but that doesn't mean every place is. 95% of the world's population lives outside the US, remember. >Stories…

> This incident is an outlier. I disagree. From my perspective, things that I could never imagine happening in the U.S. are happening with increasing frequency. I could cite an extensive list, but the list is already well known - I can only imagine you're in some kind of denial. Add this item to the list and wait for the next, tomorrow.

I agree there's a lot of crazy stuff happening in the US these days, but this just isn't an example of it. This school, and these crappy christian churches trying to brainwash Native Americans out of their culture, is nothing new; it's been going on since the late 1800s. This particular place and what's happening there looks like nothing's changed in over 100 years. Why the Native Americans there continue to put up with this BS after all this time, and don't just kick these assholes out of their reservation, is beyond me.

It has absolutely nothing to do with things like abortion being banned in many states due to a SCOTUS decision, the ever-growing polarization, etc.

Re: Took part in Apache ceremonies. schools expelled them for satanic activities

#18

Post by qarl »

shiroiushi wrote: post #16
qarl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This incident is an outlier. I disagree. From my perspective, things that I could never imagine happening in the U.S. are happening with increasing frequency. I could cite an extensive list, but the list is already well known - I can only imagine you're in some kind of denial. Add this item to the list and wait for the next, tomorrow.

I agree there's a lot of crazy stuff happening in the US these days, but this just isn't an example of it. This school, and these crappy christian churches trying to brainwash Native Americans out of their culture, is nothing new; it's been going on since the late 1800s. This particular place and what's happening there looks like nothing's changed in over 100 years. Why the Native Americans there continue to put up w…

> It has absolutely nothing to do with...

Christian abuse has nothing to do with rising Christian Nationalism?

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. You have a nice day.

Re: Took part in Apache ceremonies. schools expelled them for satanic activities

#19

Post by Anon_451 »

Story has two sides to it. On one, you have a faith-based private school built on a native reservation with the explicit purpose of being as bigoted as possible toward the people living there, which is horrible, but on par for the behavior of such organizations. On the other, you have natives who continue to send their children to that school despite generations of this pattern because of better educational outcomes than the U.S. federal public school.

There are a few possible calls to action here. You're not going to convince the ministry to change their outlook -- you might as well ask an alligator to stop eating meat. As a religious organization they are exempt from many laws that would get government or corporate groups in trouble, particularly if the families signed a paper to enroll their kids. It comes down to biting the bullet and playing along with the school's BS, or biting the other bullet and seeking alternative educational providers. It would be great if as a community they could find their own path to creating better public schools (having the freedom to build casinos provides a readily-available revenue stream, if you can solve the leadership corruption issue), but failing that, I guess the U.S. federal government could throw more money at the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

I can emphasize with the kids because I grew up atheist in an overwhelmingly Mormon backwoods town, where I was the "devil worshiper" and treated like garbage for it. On the other hand, the families have alternatives available to them. If the alternatives suck, they should look into how to make them better.

Re: Took part in Apache ceremonies. schools expelled them for satanic activities

#20

Post by shiroiushi »

qarl wrote: post #18
shiroiushi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree there's a lot of crazy stuff happening in the US these days, but this just isn't an example of it. This school, and these crappy christian churches trying to brainwash Native Americans out of their culture, is nothing new; it's been going on since the late 1800s. This particular place and what's happening there looks like nothing's changed in over 100 years. Why the Native Americans there continue to put up w…

> It has absolutely nothing to do with... Christian abuse has nothing to do with rising Christian Nationalism? I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. You have a nice day.

No, it really doesn't, when the exact same abuse has been happening for a century at this location. Do you think the FLDS is also a product of rising Christian nationalism? If you want to blame everything on current events, you can believe what you want.
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