Live data from Hacker News

ELIZA Reinterpreted: The world's first chatbot was not intended as a chatbot

arxiv.org

11–20 of 25 posts

Re: ELIZA Reinterpreted: The world's first chatbot was not intended as a chatbot

#11
post #3
post #2

Classic chatbots: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/areas... Splotch it's offensive but fun. Azile might run under Executor (the forked one at GitHub).

Emacs still has M-x doctor.

Probably based on Jeff Shrager's ELIZA. IIRC from https://corecursive.com/eliza-with-jeff-shrager/ most ELIZA's out there are actually based on his reimplementation, not on Weizenbaum's original code

Re: ELIZA Reinterpreted: The world's first chatbot was not intended as a chatbot

#12
post #5

Except it WAS intended as a chatbot... as a tool "for research into human-machine conversation and the important cognitive processes of interpretation and misinterpretation". It's like saying the guy who invented the screwdriver didn't invent it because he was REALLY just trying to build a cabinet. The reason a tool was invented does not mean the tool isn't what the tool is.

It at least establishes that it wasn't intended as a public chatbot. To extend your analogy: it's as if the inventor of the screwdriver threw away his tool afterwards and someone found it in his trash and mass manufactured it. The cabinet maker wasn't trying to make a [new standard tool for how to drive screws] (screwdriver) but was making a tool [to drive screws for just one project] (screwdriver).

Re: ELIZA Reinterpreted: The world's first chatbot was not intended as a chatbot

#13
post #10

Jeff is a HN user and his connection to ELIZA is pretty interesting. Many of the ELIZA chat bot clones were based on a version he wrote as a kid, that was published. He and a group of researchers put effort into digging up the history of original implementation. Interesting person!

You can plug your interview.

I don't want to be that person, who's always plugging stuff when it doesn't fit. But yeah, here it is:

https://corecursive.com/eliza-with-jeff-shrager/

I think Jeff is also working on a book.

Re: ELIZA Reinterpreted: The world's first chatbot was not intended as a chatbot

#14
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emacs still has M-x doctor.

Probably based on Jeff Shrager's ELIZA. IIRC from https://corecursive.com/eliza-with-jeff-shrager/ most ELIZA's out there are actually based on his reimplementation, not on Weizenbaum's original code

Quick plug; mine is based on Weizenbaum's original (or at least on his notes/specifications, as the source code wasn't available when I built mine) https://christopherdrum.itch.io/eliza8

Re: ELIZA Reinterpreted: The world's first chatbot was not intended as a chatbot

#16
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can plug your interview.

I don't want to be that person, who's always plugging stuff when it doesn't fit. But yeah, here it is: https://corecursive.com/eliza-with-jeff-shrager/ I think Jeff is also working on a book.

There's no way it doesn't fit.

Re: ELIZA Reinterpreted: The world's first chatbot was not intended as a chatbot

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably based on Jeff Shrager's ELIZA. IIRC from https://corecursive.com/eliza-with-jeff-shrager/ most ELIZA's out there are actually based on his reimplementation, not on Weizenbaum's original code

Quick plug; mine is based on Weizenbaum's original (or at least on his notes/specifications, as the source code wasn't available when I built mine) https://christopherdrum.itch.io/eliza8

Is your source code open somewhere it can be read?

Re: ELIZA Reinterpreted: The world's first chatbot was not intended as a chatbot

#18
post #5

Except it WAS intended as a chatbot... as a tool "for research into human-machine conversation and the important cognitive processes of interpretation and misinterpretation". It's like saying the guy who invented the screwdriver didn't invent it because he was REALLY just trying to build a cabinet. The reason a tool was invented does not mean the tool isn't what the tool is.

But .... it sounds like it was was? The original MIT SLIP version (yes SLIP not LISP) had a framework for embedding dynamic modules - so could do an early version of "learning." It feels like it was indeed more a framework for testing out different kinds of chatbot logic - maybe a meta-chatbot?

The famous DOCTOR script was just one example to demonstrate the tools's capabilities, and not the main point of ELIZA.

[Edit: the paper suggests the DOCTOR script is "ELIZA" not ELIZA, i.e. the limited version that became popular, not the full version that was built)

Re: ELIZA Reinterpreted: The world's first chatbot was not intended as a chatbot

#19
post #12
post #5

Except it WAS intended as a chatbot... as a tool "for research into human-machine conversation and the important cognitive processes of interpretation and misinterpretation". It's like saying the guy who invented the screwdriver didn't invent it because he was REALLY just trying to build a cabinet. The reason a tool was invented does not mean the tool isn't what the tool is.

It at least establishes that it wasn't intended as a public chatbot. To extend your analogy: it's as if the inventor of the screwdriver threw away his tool afterwards and someone found it in his trash and mass manufactured it. The cabinet maker wasn't trying to make a [new standard tool for how to drive screws] (screwdriver) but was making a tool [to drive screws for just one project] (screwdriver).

"the world first chatbot was not intended to be public."

More accurate, less interesting.

Re: ELIZA Reinterpreted: The world's first chatbot was not intended as a chatbot

#20
post #12
post #5

Except it WAS intended as a chatbot... as a tool "for research into human-machine conversation and the important cognitive processes of interpretation and misinterpretation". It's like saying the guy who invented the screwdriver didn't invent it because he was REALLY just trying to build a cabinet. The reason a tool was invented does not mean the tool isn't what the tool is.

It at least establishes that it wasn't intended as a public chatbot. To extend your analogy: it's as if the inventor of the screwdriver threw away his tool afterwards and someone found it in his trash and mass manufactured it. The cabinet maker wasn't trying to make a [new standard tool for how to drive screws] (screwdriver) but was making a tool [to drive screws for just one project] (screwdriver).

The “public” distinction feels anachronistic when applied to early 1960s software.

This was a time before networks and software distributions. The idea that software could be standardized and shared instead of written for a particular computer was not widespread.

So it’s a bit disingenuous to say that Eliza wasn’t intended as a public chatbot, when practically no software was intended to be public.

Post reply on HN