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HybridNeRF: Efficient Neural Rendering

haithemturki.com

11–20 of 53 posts

Re: HybridNeRF: Efficient Neural Rendering

#11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having destructible objects is in no way possible on contemporary hardware, unless you simplify the physics to the extreme. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your statement? Recognising objects for what they are has only recently become somewhat possible. Separating them in a 3D scan is still pretty much impossible.

Destructible environments have been a thing for like....a decade or so? There's plenty of tricks to make it realistic enough to be fun without simulating every molecule.

We've had destructible polygonal and voxel environments for a while now, yes. Destructible Nerfs are a whole other ball game - we're only just starting to get a handle on reliably segmenting objects within nerfs, let alone animating them

Re: HybridNeRF: Efficient Neural Rendering

#12
post #3

Does anyone else look forward to a game that lets you transform your house or neighbor into a playable level with destructible objects? How far are we from recognizing the “car” and making it drivable, or the “tree” and making it choppable?

I work in the rendering and gaming industry and also run a 3D scanning company. I have similarly wished for this capability, especially the destructability part. What you speak of is still pretty far off for several reasons:

-No Collision/poor collision on NERFs and GS: to have a proper interactive world, you usually need accurate character collision so that your character or vehicle can move along the floor/ground (as opposed to falling thru it) run into walls, go through door frames, etc. NERFs suffer from the same issues as photogrammetry in that they need “structure from motion” (COLMAP or similar) to give them a mesh or 3-D output that can be meshed for collision to register off of. The mesh from reality capture is noisy, and is not simple geometry. Think millions of triangles from a laser scanner or camera for “flat” ground that a video game would use 100 triangles for.

-Scanning: there’s no scanner available that provides both good 3-D information and good photo realistic textures at a price people will want to pay. Scanning every square inch of playable space in even a modest sized house is a pain, and people will look behind the television, underneath the furniture and everywhere else that most of these scanning videos and demos never go. There are a lot of ugly angles that these videos omit where a player would go.

-Post Processing: of you scan your house or any other real space, you will have poor lighting unless you took the time to do your own custom lighting and color setup. That will all need to be corrected in post process so that you can dynamically light your environment. Lighting is one of the most next generation things that people associate with games and you will be fighting prebaked shadows throughout the entire house or area that you have scanned. You don’t get away from this with NERFs or gaussian splats, because those scenes also have prebaked lighting in them that is static.

Object Destruction and Physics: I Love the game teardown, and if you want to see what it’s like to actually bust up and destroy structures that have been physically scanned, there is a plug-in to import reality capture models directly into the game with a little bit of modding. That said, teardown is voxel based, and is one of the most advanced engines that has been built to do such a thing. I have seen nothing else capable of doing cool looking destruction of any object, scanned or 3D modeled, without a large studio effort and a ton of optimization.

Re: HybridNeRF: Efficient Neural Rendering

#14
post #3

Does anyone else look forward to a game that lets you transform your house or neighbor into a playable level with destructible objects? How far are we from recognizing the “car” and making it drivable, or the “tree” and making it choppable?

Recognizing what is a car in a 3D NeRF/Gaussian Splatting scene can be done. Also research from CVPR: https://www.garfield.studio/

Re: HybridNeRF: Efficient Neural Rendering

#15
post #3

Does anyone else look forward to a game that lets you transform your house or neighbor into a playable level with destructible objects? How far are we from recognizing the “car” and making it drivable, or the “tree” and making it choppable?

I work in the rendering and gaming industry and also run a 3D scanning company. I have similarly wished for this capability, especially the destructability part. What you speak of is still pretty far off for several reasons: -No Collision/poor collision on NERFs and GS: to have a proper interactive world, you usually need accurate character collision so that your character or vehicle can move along the floor/ground (…

Maybe a quick, cheap NeRF with some object recognition, 3D object generation and replacement, so at least you have a sink where there is a sink and a couch where you have a couch, even though it might look differently.

Re: HybridNeRF: Efficient Neural Rendering

#16
post #3

Does anyone else look forward to a game that lets you transform your house or neighbor into a playable level with destructible objects? How far are we from recognizing the “car” and making it drivable, or the “tree” and making it choppable?

I mean depending on your risk aversion we’re not that far, nor have ever been.

Re: HybridNeRF: Efficient Neural Rendering

#18
post #3

Does anyone else look forward to a game that lets you transform your house or neighbor into a playable level with destructible objects? How far are we from recognizing the “car” and making it drivable, or the “tree” and making it choppable?

I work in the rendering and gaming industry and also run a 3D scanning company. I have similarly wished for this capability, especially the destructability part. What you speak of is still pretty far off for several reasons: -No Collision/poor collision on NERFs and GS: to have a proper interactive world, you usually need accurate character collision so that your character or vehicle can move along the floor/ground (…

I think you're generalising from exacting use cases to ones that might be much more tolerant of imperfection.

Re: HybridNeRF: Efficient Neural Rendering

#19
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having destructible objects is in no way possible on contemporary hardware, unless you simplify the physics to the extreme. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your statement? Recognising objects for what they are has only recently become somewhat possible. Separating them in a 3D scan is still pretty much impossible.

Destructible environments have been a thing for like....a decade or so? There's plenty of tricks to make it realistic enough to be fun without simulating every molecule.

A whole lot of manual work goes into making destructible 3D assets. Combined, I've put nearly a full work week into perfecting a breaking bottle simulation in Houdini to add to my demo reel, and it's still not quite there. And that's starting out with nice clean geometry that I made myself! A lot of it comes down to breaking things up based on voronoi tessellation of the surfaces, which is easy when you've got an eight-pointed cube, but it takes a lot more effort and is much more error prone as the geometric complexity increases. If you can figure out how to easily make simple enough, realistic looking, manifold geometry from real world 3d scans that's clean enough for standard 3D asset pipelines, you'll make a lot of money doing it.

Re: HybridNeRF: Efficient Neural Rendering

#20
post #3

Does anyone else look forward to a game that lets you transform your house or neighbor into a playable level with destructible objects? How far are we from recognizing the “car” and making it drivable, or the “tree” and making it choppable?

I work in the rendering and gaming industry and also run a 3D scanning company. I have similarly wished for this capability, especially the destructability part. What you speak of is still pretty far off for several reasons: -No Collision/poor collision on NERFs and GS: to have a proper interactive world, you usually need accurate character collision so that your character or vehicle can move along the floor/ground (…

I think collision detection is solvable. And the scanning process should be no harder than 3D modeling to the same quality level. Probably much easier, honestly. Modeling is labor intensive. I'm not sure why you say "there’s no scanner available that provides both good 3-D information and good photo realistic textures" because these new techniques don't use "scanners", all you need is regular cameras. The 3D information is inferred.

Lighting is the big issue, IMO. As soon as you want any kind of interactivity besides moving the camera you need dynamic lighting. The problem is you're going to have to mix the captured absolutely perfect real-world lighting with extremely approximate real-time computed lighting (which will be much worse than offline-rendered path tracing, which still wouldn't match real-world quality). It's going to look awful. At least, until someone figures out a revolutionary neural relighting system. We are pretty far from that today.

Scale is another issue. Two issues, really, rendering and storage. There's already a lot of research into scaling up rendering to large and detailed scenes, but I wouldn't say it's solved yet. And once you have rendering, storage will be the next issue. These scans will be massive and we'll need some very effective compression to be able to distribute large scenes to users.

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