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Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

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Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#11
post #6

At what point do we just completely lose faith in a company? First they screwed over the public and now our astronauts.

You should never have faith in a company. You should have faith in the regulatory process that constrains that company. If you see a spoiled child being a brat, do you blame the child?

> You should have faith in the regulatory process that constrains that company.

"Hello, im from the government and im here to help"

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see, there is this barrel, and it is full of pork. You work for a guy who wants that pork. He says: Go pick up some of the pork, cut a chunk off for yourself, and bring the rest to me. You do that every day. You both have a nice steady supply of pork. Some other person, who isn't you, and isn't your boss, or your boss's boss would like it if the barrel got into space. It doesn't, but that's okay because they have…

Except that this was a fixed price contract. If they don't get it right the pork train does come to an end.

There will always be more fixed price contracts in the future.

Every time the barrel emptied in the past, a new barrel full to the brim with pork was delivered.

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see, there is this barrel, and it is full of pork. You work for a guy who wants that pork. He says: Go pick up some of the pork, cut a chunk off for yourself, and bring the rest to me. You do that every day. You both have a nice steady supply of pork. Some other person, who isn't you, and isn't your boss, or your boss's boss would like it if the barrel got into space. It doesn't, but that's okay because they have…

Except that this was a fixed price contract. If they don't get it right the pork train does come to an end.

That doesn't seem to actually be the case?

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#16
post #6

At what point do we just completely lose faith in a company? First they screwed over the public and now our astronauts.

You should never have faith in a company. You should have faith in the regulatory process that constrains that company. If you see a spoiled child being a brat, do you blame the child?

The same regulatory process that allowed the Boeing Max and other catastrophic issues?

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#17

What's the strategy for getting the astronauts back? Do they jettison the Starliner and dock a different recovery vehicle? Are those on stand-by ready to go?

Worst case, they could always use the other capsule that's docked to the ISS right now to get back.

Though that would leave the current crew stranded up there until a replacement spacecraft can be sent. That takes several months.

This has happened before. The Soyuz docked to the ISS in Dec 2022 was damaged by a micrometeorite strike and was deemed unsafe, leaving that crew essentially stuck up there until a new Soyuz was sent back up in Feb 2023. (The damaged Soyuz was later remotely flown back empty.)

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#18
post #6

At what point do we just completely lose faith in a company? First they screwed over the public and now our astronauts.

You should never have faith in a company. You should have faith in the regulatory process that constrains that company. If you see a spoiled child being a brat, do you blame the child?

Nah there needs to be trust in engineering or review principles and leadership to do the right thing under ambiguity within a company above and beyond regulations. Codes and laws don’t move fast enough for innovation and invention. And take building codes for example, they keep homes safe but you can build a lemon of a house that passes inspection. It can also have terrible architectural layout. That doesn’t mean you need more codes or inspectors.

In highly regulated industries there’s a revolving door issue where private employees join government, write the specifications, then return to private industry at a higher level.

But yeah in this case I agree regulators and company controls should have a pause or mitigation plan before running at risk. Guess we’ll see over the next few days.

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#19
post #6

At what point do we just completely lose faith in a company? First they screwed over the public and now our astronauts.

You should never have faith in a company. You should have faith in the regulatory process that constrains that company. If you see a spoiled child being a brat, do you blame the child?

> You should never have faith in a company. You should have faith in the regulatory process that constrains that company.

I agree, but I think the need for this points to a pretty glaring level of brokenness in capitalism.

(I'm also assuming by your second "should" that there's an implicit "in an ideal world" prefix, since I really do not have much faith in the regulatory process that constrains Boeing.)

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should never have faith in a company. You should have faith in the regulatory process that constrains that company. If you see a spoiled child being a brat, do you blame the child?

The same regulatory process that allowed the Boeing Max and other catastrophic issues?

The good news is that if the regulations haven't been stringent enough to protect people, we can always increase them and also hold regulators that fail to do their jobs accountable.
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