Or in more general terms "HR is not your friend!"
Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible
11–20 of 89 posts
Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible
#12No shit, next you're going to tell me water is wet. If you're the sort of person that cannot decode what a "Performance Improvement Plan" means then you're going to be eaten by the industry alive. It's insane to me that we even need qualified people to reassure anyone about that.
> If you're the sort of person that cannot decode what a "Performance Improvement Plan" means then you're going to be eaten by the industry alive. It's insane to me that we even need qualified people to reassure anyone about that.
Business and employment works with good faith. A lot of people work with good faith. If your manager suddenly pulls a PIP, the good faith is broken but the managers continue to lie that PIPs can be surpassed. It is the lies that detract people - especially the ones that are clinging to the job for valid reasons like family, mortgage, visas etc.
American companies have abandoned good faith. Gen Z is learning it from millennials and abandoning corporate America. Articles such as this one are just highlighting to people how to recognize bad faith.
Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible
#13No shit, next you're going to tell me water is wet. If you're the sort of person that cannot decode what a "Performance Improvement Plan" means then you're going to be eaten by the industry alive. It's insane to me that we even need qualified people to reassure anyone about that.
Not everyone is born with the innate ability to decode corporate doublespeak.
I’m glad you know what a PIP is – how about a little less judgement for today’s 10000? https://xkcd.com/1053/
Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible
#14I have been on both sides
1) got a talking too about performance - it wasn't called a pip (my mom was dying and I was taking too much time out for medical appointments for her. Note the discussion was shortly after she had passed)
2) As a fairly new manager (at the time) I had to put my first hire as a manager onto a pip. It was painfully obvious to everyone they were not capable and struggled with the most basic things.
While I didn't hold out much hope they would turn it around, I gave them every opportunity to prove to me they could do the job (or learn at least to) they were hired to do, instead they cheated their way through the pip, passing others peoples work off as their own.
Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm of two minds here. I know what you're talking about, and I don't hate people trying to get ahead by gaming the system; fundamentally that's what we're all here to do. But at the same time, decoding what 'business language' means in real-world terms is an essential skill in today's market. People who can't figure this out are going to be chewed up and spit out by the machine one way or another. The entire reason w…
> fundamentally that's what we're all here to do. I'm sure that I'm misunderstanding what you mean here. Do you really mean that fundamentally everyone is trying to get ahead by gaming the system?
Fundamentally, yes. Everyone at a base level is driven by desire, either for change, money, recognition, what have you. We all want to progress in life by fulfilling these desires, and most people will tell you that the market won't reward you for playing fair. If you work at a business, you fundamentally have to play the game to ensure progress. The entire article here is about how you will be manipulated if you don't question the literal wording of what HR tells you. If you don't, you could be missing precious weeks of job-searching and interviewing time. Making you believe it's about personal improvement is one of their many time-wasting and greedy tricks.
So if you're not part of management setting up the game, and if you're not one of the players conscious of the House Edge, how long can you play at the table? I really do empathize with people who have benign expectations of business politics and want to go attend those silly bar-crawl/"after hours" events. But those people, nice as many of them are, are tools. The only way to put yourself ahead of the management is to stop being a sycophant, and to strategically deny your employer free office hours.
Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible
#16I have been on both sides 1) got a talking too about performance - it wasn't called a pip (my mom was dying and I was taking too much time out for medical appointments for her. Note the discussion was shortly after she had passed) 2) As a fairly new manager (at the time) I had to put my first hire as a manager onto a pip. It was painfully obvious to everyone they were not capable and struggled with the most basic thi…
> I gave them every opportunity to prove to me they could do the job (or learn at least to) they were hired to do, instead they cheated their way through the pip, passing others peoples work off as their own.
I feel like this is the problem with PIPs. From the managerial side, there is this good-faith expectation that a poorly-performing employee will snap back into shape once put on-notice. For people that are chronically incapable of certain tasks, this is a deliberately bad-faith expectation. And while it's not particularly common, it also stands to reason that a well-performing employee could be judged by unfair metrics or assigned an impossible task. So now everyone feels wronged. It's like a minimally-viable abstraction for making a firing appear natural and documented.
Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
> fundamentally that's what we're all here to do. I'm sure that I'm misunderstanding what you mean here. Do you really mean that fundamentally everyone is trying to get ahead by gaming the system?
Fundamentally, yes. Everyone at a base level is driven by desire, either for change, money, recognition, what have you. We all want to progress in life by fulfilling these desires, and most people will tell you that the market won't reward you for playing fair. If you work at a business, you fundamentally have to play the game to ensure progress. The entire article here is about how you will be manipulated if you don…
> most people will tell you that the market won't reward you for playing fair. If you work at a business, you fundamentally have to play the game to ensure progress.
I could not disagree with this more. My professional and business experience indicates this is not accurate.
> The entire article here is about how you will be manipulated if you don't question the literal wording of what HR tells you.
True! I'm not saying that the world isn't full of manipulative assholes, and people need to know what sort of assholery they will encounter.
I'm just saying that you don't need to be a manipulative asshole in order to succeed in business. If you're arguing that you do (which is what I'm hearing), I think that's incorrect.
> The only way to put yourself ahead of the management is to stop being a sycophant, and to strategically deny your employer free office hours.
We're entirely on the same page here, though.
Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible
#18I work with two people who survived PIPs and are now productive members of my teams. I wasn't the manager involved, but I think she made a good choice, both when she PIP'ed them and by passing them when they picked up their game. This is going to vary company to company, but from my perspective there's absolutely no reason a capable person can't get themselves out of a PIP and remain at a company.
Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fundamentally, yes. Everyone at a base level is driven by desire, either for change, money, recognition, what have you. We all want to progress in life by fulfilling these desires, and most people will tell you that the market won't reward you for playing fair. If you work at a business, you fundamentally have to play the game to ensure progress. The entire article here is about how you will be manipulated if you don…
> most people will tell you that the market won't reward you for playing fair. If you work at a business, you fundamentally have to play the game to ensure progress. I could not disagree with this more. My professional and business experience indicates this is not accurate. > The entire article here is about how you will be manipulated if you don't question the literal wording of what HR tells you. True! I'm not sayi…
> I'm just saying that you don't need to be a manipulative asshole in order to succeed in business.
Definitely agree here. If you're a manager or executive, you always have the option of showing up to work casually, treating everyone with good faith to get work done and get paid.
If you're an employee, though? Ground crew, not management, no reports? It's gloves-off all the time, a manager who's nice to you one day can turn sour another. It's the nature of the power imbalance that makes it impossible for good employees to take their employer in good faith. Without that skepticism, you're bound to be manipulated and undervalued as a human.
Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible
#20Companies with PIPs stand firmly on the "Adult Day Care" side of the industry.
When serious professionals try to work together and it doesn't work out, someone is asked to leave, and they do. They get to play it off as a reason other than performance. Egos and careers remain undamaged, and everyone can move on.
Adult Day Care centers have very low bars to clear, and most roles could be performed by basically anyone. Firing someone requires a lot of pomp and circumstance in order to seem fair. After all, everyone else is barely doing anything, and they will get to keep their jobs.
If you get put on a PIP, you know what game you're playing, and you absolutely should not quit. Make them fire you, and collect unemployment. Then move on to the next host.