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Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?

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11–20 of 38 posts

Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?

#11
Let me know when you can solve for 1 or more of

- Human Greed

- A system set up on the principal of the more you have capital you have, the more capital you can acquire.

- The instinct to achieve "security" for you and your family

- Democracy being run on averages, and the IQ/EQ of the average person is frighteningly sub-par

- Ethics being an idea not a formula

- The instinct for most of our educated population to focus on second rate problems they are not in a position to solve

Then get back to us

Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?

#12
When people stop being excited about $400k TC it’ll be easier to have ethics in big tech.

Also “ethics” aren’t some monolithic thing everybody agrees on.

I have 0 issue with a company selling whatever data they have on me in exchange for use of a service I like. It’s a fair trade. I can’t monetize my data myself so I may as well get to watch a few videos or something out of the deal.

Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?

#13
Tech worker unions?

As well as designer unions?

Basically empowering tech workers to refuse unethical work, collectively, without the threat of losing their jobs and becoming homeless.

And, sufficient diversity to ensure representation of vulnerable populations in the workforce.

For example, a product team having women in decision making positions is much less likely to ship a product lacking basic protections from types of abuse that only women experience - compared to a product team consisting of tech bros.

Mike Monteiro has a fantastic talk on the topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIcM21l61TE

Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?

#14

Can you be more specific what exact ethical rules are violated and who is the authority to decide the rules?

In the US, it could be argued that big tech, and the government through big tech, violate the 4th amendment - specifically regarding a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Can an individual reasonably know the data that every platform has on them? Is it ethical if a government obtains a warrant to an individual's data they don't know the tech company is on possession of? What's stopping the government from buying data from companies without the need for a warrant?

Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?

#16

Can you be more specific what exact ethical rules are violated and who is the authority to decide the rules?

In the US, it could be argued that big tech, and the government through big tech, violate the 4th amendment - specifically regarding a reasonable expectation of privacy. Can an individual reasonably know the data that every platform has on them? Is it ethical if a government obtains a warrant to an individual's data they don't know the tech company is on possession of? What's stopping the government from buying data…

Who draws the line of “reasonable” when it comes to visiting websites?

Any other more serious examples?

Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, it could be argued that big tech, and the government through big tech, violate the 4th amendment - specifically regarding a reasonable expectation of privacy. Can an individual reasonably know the data that every platform has on them? Is it ethical if a government obtains a warrant to an individual's data they don't know the tech company is on possession of? What's stopping the government from buying data…

Who draws the line of “reasonable” when it comes to visiting websites? Any other more serious examples?

That is not serious enough?

To be fair Google gives you a lot of control over what data is kept but the defaults suck.

I am not sure what happens now but there was the PRISM debacle. Send an email to a non US citizen and they can end run your rights because the other person isn’t.

At scale things that are innocent are no longer so. Your neighbour knows you had a visit from the police at 6am. But what if a company knows who has visited who, where everyone has been, what sites they have visited (e.g. anger management class, criminal lawyer) and then can piece it all together in a world where, well look at Trump - you can make a misdemeanour into a felony with the right constructs against even a powerful person.

It is quite dangerous for the average person.

And this is pre AI revolution.

Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?

#18
It is a cliche, but: education. I think most people don’t even consider that there are ethical arguments to be had, and merely accept whatever is given to them.

That and easy off-ramps for alternatives. “X is bad, so use Y instead” is a powerful move, but it only works if Y is actually a viable alternative to X.

Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?

#19
post #7

Ethics and technology have never really been close friends.

That depends entirely on which niche of society you look at. The Amish are the epitome of ethics-driven technical choices. Even though their specific ethics mean a rejection of much of today's tech, it shows that communities can and do exist that put their ethics into their tech choices.

The problem is that we live in a society where the bulk of people focus on money as the #1 priority. Fixing technical ethics involves making changes that allow people to have different top priorities.

Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who draws the line of “reasonable” when it comes to visiting websites? Any other more serious examples?

That is not serious enough? To be fair Google gives you a lot of control over what data is kept but the defaults suck. I am not sure what happens now but there was the PRISM debacle. Send an email to a non US citizen and they can end run your rights because the other person isn’t. At scale things that are innocent are no longer so. Your neighbour knows you had a visit from the police at 6am. But what if a company kno…

You imply that big tech has malicious goals in mind in the first place.

Which is not the case, speaking from experience.

It means it is not a serious threat by itself, no more than professional pilots is a threat to air travel safety.

Just because they know too much about flying.

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