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Quieting the Global Growl

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Re: Quieting the Global Growl

#11

Post by nativeit »

bee_rider wrote: post #10
dingnuts wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sound and radio are of course waves in completely different media. why would low frequency radio waves be insane to wildlife? it's not like it's microwave (which would cook them) or pressure (sound) which directly physically damages their organs. almost by definition low frequency radio waves are low energy, so I don't see how this would be more dangerous to Flipper than my Wi-Fi router is to me

Huh, sharks pick up EM signals, right? I wonder what they think of this stuff But just to be clear, I don’t think we should suppose it is damaging and try to ask the military to stop using it (good luck, lol). It could be worth looking into though.

I mean, we all pick up EM signals. The frequency range is the distinction, I think.

Re: Quieting the Global Growl

#12

Post by sevensor »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #3

If you have the chance to listen to actual boat noise from an underwater microphone, you’ll be surprised at how loud it is and how far sound can travel. It’s less of a problem with pleasure boats and more of an issue with commercial ones like container ships. Other sounds that are loud underwater and harmful for animals include wind turbine noise (from spinning giant blades) and sonar pings.

I'm not a fluid mechanics guy, but all that cavitation from the screws seems like preventably wasted energy, not to mention a huge source of potential surface wear.

Re: Quieting the Global Growl

#13

Post by sdenton4 »

If you make incredibly loud noises above water, humans will complain, and you'll end up reducing the noise, due to some combination of workplace safety regulations, litigious neighbors, and self-regulation.

People don't experience underwater noise directly, though, and so it is allowed to be arbitrarily loud and has gone almost completely unchecked, and is undoubtedly harmful got marine ecosystems. It is thought to be a major factor in whale beachings, for example.

Re: Quieting the Global Growl

#14

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

jeffbee wrote: post #9
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #3

If you have the chance to listen to actual boat noise from an underwater microphone, you’ll be surprised at how loud it is and how far sound can travel. It’s less of a problem with pleasure boats and more of an issue with commercial ones like container ships. Other sounds that are loud underwater and harmful for animals include wind turbine noise (from spinning giant blades) and sonar pings.

According to this (highly interesting) paper I just read, it seems that the operating sounds of wind turbines come from the gearbox, which makes more sense to me because the blades of offshore turbines are turning very slowly. Also according to the same paper, the operating noises of offshore wind farms are probably not significant. https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2006/309/m309p279.pdf As an aside, I love discov…

My experience disagrees with that claim. But I suggest an easier way to verify this, which is to just go to YouTube and look at videos of the sound produced by wind turbines on land. You will hear the distinct loud woosh sound of the actual blades and not the gearbox. Personally, I feel a lot of the academic denial around this noise issue is from people with an activist goal.

Re: Quieting the Global Growl

#15

Post by bee_rider »

nativeit wrote: post #11
bee_rider wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, sharks pick up EM signals, right? I wonder what they think of this stuff But just to be clear, I don’t think we should suppose it is damaging and try to ask the military to stop using it (good luck, lol). It could be worth looking into though.

I mean, we all pick up EM signals. The frequency range is the distinction, I think.

Sure, but sharks use them as a sense. We all pick up photons in the sense that we can all feel the warmth of the sun on our skin, but also, it is sometimes interesting to think about how people who aren’t blind perceive light.

Re: Quieting the Global Growl

#16

Post by jeffbee »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #14
jeffbee wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this (highly interesting) paper I just read, it seems that the operating sounds of wind turbines come from the gearbox, which makes more sense to me because the blades of offshore turbines are turning very slowly. Also according to the same paper, the operating noises of offshore wind farms are probably not significant. https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2006/309/m309p279.pdf As an aside, I love discov…

My experience disagrees with that claim. But I suggest an easier way to verify this, which is to just go to YouTube and look at videos of the sound produced by wind turbines on land. You will hear the distinct loud woosh sound of the actual blades and not the gearbox. Personally, I feel a lot of the academic denial around this noise issue is from people with an activist goal.

You seem to have missed the point of the research, which is all about underwater sound propagation.

Re: Quieting the Global Growl

#17

Post by bee_rider »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #14
jeffbee wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this (highly interesting) paper I just read, it seems that the operating sounds of wind turbines come from the gearbox, which makes more sense to me because the blades of offshore turbines are turning very slowly. Also according to the same paper, the operating noises of offshore wind farms are probably not significant. https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2006/309/m309p279.pdf As an aside, I love discov…

My experience disagrees with that claim. But I suggest an easier way to verify this, which is to just go to YouTube and look at videos of the sound produced by wind turbines on land. You will hear the distinct loud woosh sound of the actual blades and not the gearbox. Personally, I feel a lot of the academic denial around this noise issue is from people with an activist goal.

YouTube videos are not very difficult to edit. If you search YouTube for “noisy windmills,” I’m sure you’ll get… something.

Anyway windmills are all over the place, lots of people have had the experience of being near them. If they make too much noise, that’s a problem of course, but I think lots of people can verify the existence of non-noisy ones by virtue of having seen them in person. So, sure, loud designs should be avoided since there are perfectly good alternatives.

Re: Quieting the Global Growl

#18

Post by cess11 »

telesilla wrote: post #5
lioeters wrote: post #2

Recently I saw a video of a dolphin that came up to a boat and was imitating the sound of a boat motor. It looked playful, but perhaps it was complaining about all the noise.

It think it was an orca, I saw this yesterday also. We're all curious what it's trying to communicate, but I like the idea of it repeating back to us what is a very annoying sound to them.

Orcas are dolphins.

Re: Quieting the Global Growl

#19

Post by cess11 »

rtkwe wrote: post #7
telesilla wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It think it was an orca, I saw this yesterday also. We're all curious what it's trying to communicate, but I like the idea of it repeating back to us what is a very annoying sound to them.

"This is what you sound like idiot, those aren't even words!" -That Orca Probably I've been highly amused at the tales of Orca's attacking yachts over the last few years too.

Yacht in this context typically refers to a rather small sailing boat. It affects small-scale fishers and things like that, not the large motor yachts rich people have.

Re: Quieting the Global Growl

#20

Post by dkarl »

rtkwe wrote: post #7
telesilla wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It think it was an orca, I saw this yesterday also. We're all curious what it's trying to communicate, but I like the idea of it repeating back to us what is a very annoying sound to them.

"This is what you sound like idiot, those aren't even words!" -That Orca Probably I've been highly amused at the tales of Orca's attacking yachts over the last few years too.

I remember watching a nature TV show as a kid in which the presenter waxed lyrical about the way a group of dolphins took one dolphin's vocalization and repeated it and riffed on it, claiming that they were improvising musically together like a jazz group. I remember thinking that it was a very optimistic assumption, and it was just as likely that the rest of the dolphin were mocking and bullying the first dolphin.

That train of thought probably says something about what I was going through at the time, but given other things we've learned about dolphins, I wouldn't discount my idea.

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