> Some vocal corners of the American right are trying to resurrect the discredited brand of prewar isolationism and deny the basic value of the alliance system that has kept the postwar peace. By “some on the right “ you mean your presidential candidate and most of your party.
Not to mention most liberals until five minutes ago. If you had told me twenty years ago that supposed democrats were agreeing with Mitch McConnell and acting out Team America World Police, I wouldn’t have believed you. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0372588/.
As long as we're talking about fallacious rhetoric, you set the bar at a country having to "be" Nazi Germany, instead of just having similar expansionist goals. You avoid mentioning NATO and the reasons Putin views it as a threat, probably because it would undercut your claim that there are no worthwhile parallels to WWII here.
My point is that “Nazi germany” is a small subset of “expansionism” and the latter is widespread and mostly none of our business. Borders shift. It’s not America’s job to police whatever borders happened to exist at some arbitrary point in time all over the world.
> [expansionism] is widespread and mostly none of our business.
I know you understand how alliances work, so I'm really fascinated that thus far you appear to be studiously avoiding mention of the most consequential alliance in history, one which happens to have significant bearing on US involvement in the war in Ukraine.
My point is that “Nazi germany” is a small subset of “expansionism” and the latter is widespread and mostly none of our business. Borders shift. It’s not America’s job to police whatever borders happened to exist at some arbitrary point in time all over the world.
> [expansionism] is widespread and mostly none of our business. I know you understand how alliances work, so I'm really fascinated that thus far you appear to be studiously avoiding mention of the most consequential alliance in history, one which happens to have significant bearing on US involvement in the war in Ukraine.
“Alliance” is just code for “Team America: World Police.” If everyone is our “ally” then we are just the world’s border police. Our real allies are the UK, Canada, France, Germany, and Japan. None of those countries are endangered by Putin. They were also not endangered by Iraq invading Kuwait, communists taking over Vietnam or Korea, whatever happened in the Balkans in the 1990s, and all those events that led to mistaken wars over the last 70 years.
Perhaps he's hoping for something extra from the defense contractor lobby or that America should return to policies neocolonial Monroe Doctrine with CIA coups, but this time claim Africa, and get ourself involved in more wars.
Going neocon agro W-style won't improve America's geopolitical status. Maybe he's having trouble coming to terms with China rivaling America's economic power and military projection that vaguely resembles what America did, albeit more flagrantly aggressively.
> [expansionism] is widespread and mostly none of our business. I know you understand how alliances work, so I'm really fascinated that thus far you appear to be studiously avoiding mention of the most consequential alliance in history, one which happens to have significant bearing on US involvement in the war in Ukraine.
“Alliance” is just code for “Team America: World Police.” If everyone is our “ally” then we are just the world’s border police. Our real allies are the UK, Canada, France, Germany, and Japan. None of those countries are endangered by Putin. They were also not endangered by Iraq invading Kuwait, communists taking over Vietnam or Korea, whatever happened in the Balkans in the 1990s, and all those events that led to mis…
Our "real" allies don't include NATO signatories? Germany isn't threatened by Russia?
Absolutely hilarious and ahistorical. Anyone playing the silly rhetorical games you're playing isn't trying to convince anyone with reasoned arguments.
“Alliance” is just code for “Team America: World Police.” If everyone is our “ally” then we are just the world’s border police. Our real allies are the UK, Canada, France, Germany, and Japan. None of those countries are endangered by Putin. They were also not endangered by Iraq invading Kuwait, communists taking over Vietnam or Korea, whatever happened in the Balkans in the 1990s, and all those events that led to mis…
Our "real" allies don't include NATO signatories? Germany isn't threatened by Russia? Absolutely hilarious and ahistorical. Anyone playing the silly rhetorical games you're playing isn't trying to convince anyone with reasoned arguments.
Most NATO members are not real allies. Turkey or Greece or Slovenia could fall into the ocean and it wouldn’t materially Americans. NATO had a purpose once, but it’s just become a vehicle other countries to outsource their defense to the U.S.
You want to talk about history? How about: for 70 years American interventionism has resulted in an unbroken streak of mistaken wars that have sapped America’s wealth. Thats where your definition of “ally” has gotten us.
Our "real" allies don't include NATO signatories? Germany isn't threatened by Russia? Absolutely hilarious and ahistorical. Anyone playing the silly rhetorical games you're playing isn't trying to convince anyone with reasoned arguments.
Most NATO members are not real allies. Turkey or Greece or Slovenia could fall into the ocean and it wouldn’t materially Americans. NATO had a purpose once, but it’s just become a vehicle other countries to outsource their defense to the U.S. You want to talk about history? How about: for 70 years American interventionism has resulted in an unbroken streak of mistaken wars that have sapped America’s wealth. Thats whe…
Hah. "My" definition. Okay. That you don't see the purpose of NATO today, or the importance of smaller member states to the overall alliance, is reason enough to call it a day.
Our "real" allies don't include NATO signatories? Germany isn't threatened by Russia? Absolutely hilarious and ahistorical. Anyone playing the silly rhetorical games you're playing isn't trying to convince anyone with reasoned arguments.
Most NATO members are not real allies. Turkey or Greece or Slovenia could fall into the ocean and it wouldn’t materially Americans. NATO had a purpose once, but it’s just become a vehicle other countries to outsource their defense to the U.S. You want to talk about history? How about: for 70 years American interventionism has resulted in an unbroken streak of mistaken wars that have sapped America’s wealth. Thats whe…
Hey we won the Persian Gulf War. Even if we didn’t pay the tab.
Our "real" allies don't include NATO signatories? Germany isn't threatened by Russia? Absolutely hilarious and ahistorical. Anyone playing the silly rhetorical games you're playing isn't trying to convince anyone with reasoned arguments.
Most NATO members are not real allies. Turkey or Greece or Slovenia could fall into the ocean and it wouldn’t materially Americans. NATO had a purpose once, but it’s just become a vehicle other countries to outsource their defense to the U.S. You want to talk about history? How about: for 70 years American interventionism has resulted in an unbroken streak of mistaken wars that have sapped America’s wealth. Thats whe…
> Most NATO members are not real allies. ... [F]or 70 years American interventionism has resulted in an unbroken streak of mistaken wars ....
If only we had a Star Trek TOS "Guardian of Forever" time portal to show us what wars were avoided by what you call American "interventionism."