Live data from Hacker News

Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

digilent.com

11–20 of 168 posts

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#11
post #2

Can someone explain the last paragraph? The author gives the example of trying to find a 70 Ohm resistor and how the 68 Ohm and 75 Ohm are a little off. They conclude by saying you should just use 33 and 47 Ohm resistors, but wouldn't that give an resistance of 80, not 70?

I think that was a typo and they meant 22 + 47, which equals ~70 Ohms

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#12
post #7
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also thought that was interesting. Also, wouldn't the tolerance be doubled when you add them in series? Or does it still average out to +/- 5%?

Fun fact is that afaik component values are often distributed in a bi-modal way because actually +-5% often means that they sorted out already the +-1% to sell as a different more expensive batch. At least it used to be that way. Wonder if it is still worth doing this in production. So I guess one could also measure to average things out otherwise the errors will stay the same relatively.

I'm not sure where the line is, but at some point things like temperature a matter and so a low % resister cannot be high % that passes tests.

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#13
post #7
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also thought that was interesting. Also, wouldn't the tolerance be doubled when you add them in series? Or does it still average out to +/- 5%?

Fun fact is that afaik component values are often distributed in a bi-modal way because actually +-5% often means that they sorted out already the +-1% to sell as a different more expensive batch. At least it used to be that way. Wonder if it is still worth doing this in production. So I guess one could also measure to average things out otherwise the errors will stay the same relatively.

If you can measure them with that precision, would it make sense to sell them with that accuracy too? So if you tried to manufacture a resistor at 68kΩ +/- 20%, and it actually ended up at 66kΩ +/- 1%, couldn't you now sell it as an E192 product which according to TFA are more expensive?

Selling with different tolerances only makes sense to me if the product can't be reliably measured to have a tighter tolerance, perhaps if the low- quality ones are expected to vary over their life or if it's too expensive to test each one individually and you have to rely on sampling the manufacturing process to guess what the tolerances in each batch should be.

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#14
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also thought that was interesting. Also, wouldn't the tolerance be doubled when you add them in series? Or does it still average out to +/- 5%?

tolerance should actually go down since the errors help cancel each other out. reference: https://people.umass.edu/phys286/Propagating_uncertainty.pdf disclaimer: it will be a relatively small effect for just two resitors aleph's comment is also correct. the bounds they quote are a "wost-case" bound that is useful enough for real world applications. typically, you won't be connecting a sufficiently large number of re…

If values are normally distributed, random errors accumulate with the square root of the number of components. Four components in series have 2x the uncertainty over all, etc, but if you divide that double uncertainty by four times the resistance, it's half the percentage uncertainty as before. (I avoid using the word "tolerance" because someone will argue whether it really works this way)

In reality, some manufacturers may measure some components, and the ones within 1% get labeled as 1%, then it may be that when you're buying 5% components that all of them are at least 1% off, and the math goes out the window since it isn't a normal distribution.

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#16
post #4

Insightful article. Not something I had considered before, but also...isn't this just a fancy way of defining a geometric sequence thats convenient for values in base-10?

Yes, the values are produced by a geometric series. For E6, the series has a ratio of R, where R^6 = 10, and the values are further rounded to two significant figures.

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#17
post #4

Insightful article. Not something I had considered before, but also...isn't this just a fancy way of defining a geometric sequence thats convenient for values in base-10?

It's a more accessible way of explaining it that doesn't require understanding geometric sequences first.

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#18
post #5
post #2

Can someone explain the last paragraph? The author gives the example of trying to find a 70 Ohm resistor and how the 68 Ohm and 75 Ohm are a little off. They conclude by saying you should just use 33 and 47 Ohm resistors, but wouldn't that give an resistance of 80, not 70?

I also thought that was interesting. Also, wouldn't the tolerance be doubled when you add them in series? Or does it still average out to +/- 5%?

Nope, still averages to +/- 5%.

To give an example, let's say you've got two resistors of 100 Ohm +/- 5%. That means each is actually 95-105 Ohm. Two of them is 190-210 Ohm. Still only a 5% variance from 200 Ohm.

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#19
post #13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact is that afaik component values are often distributed in a bi-modal way because actually +-5% often means that they sorted out already the +-1% to sell as a different more expensive batch. At least it used to be that way. Wonder if it is still worth doing this in production. So I guess one could also measure to average things out otherwise the errors will stay the same relatively.

If you can measure them with that precision, would it make sense to sell them with that accuracy too? So if you tried to manufacture a resistor at 68kΩ +/- 20%, and it actually ended up at 66kΩ +/- 1%, couldn't you now sell it as an E192 product which according to TFA are more expensive? Selling with different tolerances only makes sense to me if the product can't be reliably measured to have a tighter tolerance, per…

Resistors with worse tolerances may be made out of cheaper, less refined wire, which will vary resistance more by temperature. The tolerance and resistance is good over a temperature range. For more reading looking up "constantan".

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#20
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also thought that was interesting. Also, wouldn't the tolerance be doubled when you add them in series? Or does it still average out to +/- 5%?

Nope, still averages to +/- 5%. To give an example, let's say you've got two resistors of 100 Ohm +/- 5%. That means each is actually 95-105 Ohm. Two of them is 190-210 Ohm. Still only a 5% variance from 200 Ohm.

Can you assume that +/-5% isn't linearly distributed? If so, the tolerance in practice may likely end up even smaller.
Post reply on HN