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How to make a great government website

asteriskmag.com

11–20 of 74 posts

Re: How to make a great government website

#11
I thought this was an interesting read. There's certainly a lot of room for improvement for websites that allow you to sign up for government benefits (although i suspect in some cases the friction is intentional).

My biggest gripe with govenrnment websites is not the parts where they're taking in user data, but the parts where they silo their public data. In my experience this is the worst at the local and federal level. Infuriatingly, my local city council does not OCR their most recent minutes, but they do OCR their archived minutes. So you can search their minutes, just as long as they aren't relevant anymore. Another thing is using javascript buttons to serve PDF files, and filenames have no refeence point with their titles. So if you need a few at once you've gotta stop and manually change the filename from 123455325.pdf to something intelligible.

Re: How to make a great government website

#12
post #9
post #3

Ctr+F "javascript" -- no results. Hmm, if a government website necessitates the use of JavaScript, I'd consider that a hallmark of being awful.

It's 2024. We've got to stop with the not everyone has javascript meme. Anyone browsing the internet without it at this point is doing it intentionally to be special.

I've moved to "transient network faults" as my defence against creeping JS. What if the HTML gets to the user, then their mobile connection drops? The page should at least look vaguely sane.

(I think I got it off a BOFH excuse calendar.)

Re: How to make a great government website

#13
post #9
post #3

Ctr+F "javascript" -- no results. Hmm, if a government website necessitates the use of JavaScript, I'd consider that a hallmark of being awful.

It's 2024. We've got to stop with the not everyone has javascript meme. Anyone browsing the internet without it at this point is doing it intentionally to be special.

It's 2024. We've got to stop making everything turing complete.

Re: How to make a great government website

#14

I thought this was an interesting read. There's certainly a lot of room for improvement for websites that allow you to sign up for government benefits (although i suspect in some cases the friction is intentional). My biggest gripe with govenrnment websites is not the parts where they're taking in user data, but the parts where they silo their public data. In my experience this is the worst at the local and federal l…

> (although i suspect in some cases the friction is intentional)

I've worked on the first digital forms for NAV in Norway, which handles parental leave, sick leave, when you've lost your job etc.

We didn't want friction. People have a right to this help and money, and making people self served is a win for all:

- around 90 % of submitted paper forms had some kind of error, which the case worker would have to fix while entering the form manually into the case system. Often had to contact the client and spend so much time on things not giving value.

- people would have to contact case workes constantly, because the forms were made by lawyers. "If you filled in 16a you also need to fill in 46ac and 47f" would give a huge tree of possibilities most people couldn't navigate.

- making the form digital, we could conditionally show the correct parts. We could pull in data from other systems and prefill parts (like your employer, registered kids, address)

- the first version we actually just sent to a printer and someone would print and mail all digital forms so the case workers still would have to do much of the manual typing, but at least we quickly made it easier for the clients.

- then later when the case systems were ready we could instead push some xml directly instead of mailing paper. The clients didn't notice a difference. But this to say that we really tried making their lives easier even before everything else was in place.

- the core is that we want the case workers to do less of the useless things, and spend their time doing the valuable things.

- the first digital version of the parental leave form was basically what we kall "strøm på papir" or "electrical powered paper". While it was digital and easier to use, it didn't solve all issues with the paper form, as it still contained all questions and was huge. Then it was a lot of work, political, with lawyers, even law makers, if the next version could be better. Is there things we could stop asking for? Could the law be streamlined and edge cases removed? Etc. All to make it so that the common 95 % don't have to be confused and have to read and understand lots of stuff only relevant to a small minority.

Re: How to make a great government website

#15
post #3

Ctr+F "javascript" -- no results. Hmm, if a government website necessitates the use of JavaScript, I'd consider that a hallmark of being awful.

I would somewhat strongly disagree . Using JavaScript allows for a more interactive interface, where cause and effect are more clearly visible, and where the relationship between answers and further questions is more obvious.

For example, it's common for govt forms to have sections like "fill this part in if you're a resident" and "fill this part in if you're a visitor".

Elsewhere in this thread, auto-saving is mentioned, trivial to do with javascript, (and more privacy respecting to do if using local storage.) The alternative is "one page per question" - which is the slowest way possible to fill out a form (and not inconsequentially puts the highest load on the server.)

JavaScript is part of the web, and offers significant UI and work-flow advantages. Govt (or indeed any site) that eschews it is unnecessarily degrading the experience for the vast majority because some sliver of the audience don't like it.

Re: How to make a great government website

#16
Hardware. Lots of hardware. The first law of govt sites is insanely high usage, clustered around very specific date and times. The first rule of govt websites is "thou shalt not crash".

For startup folks dreaming of growing a single horn, over provisioning is an indulgence, scaling design an all-too-often vanity.

But govt sites should be designed for insane scale from day 1.

Re: How to make a great government website

#17

Hardware. Lots of hardware. The first law of govt sites is insanely high usage, clustered around very specific date and times. The first rule of govt websites is "thou shalt not crash". For startup folks dreaming of growing a single horn, over provisioning is an indulgence, scaling design an all-too-often vanity. But govt sites should be designed for insane scale from day 1.

I disagree. Most content on government sites is static content, you could fairly easily deliver much of that to a large population with relatively little hardware, assuming the software is developed such that static delivery is possible.

There are "processes" that people need to complete, but these are typically life-changing processes, things you do once in your life, or maybe once a year at most. Even if those are clustered in time as you say, and most aren't, it doesn't take a lot of hardware to run most of those processes, especially if again the software is designed well and to pull things off the critical path that don't need to be.

The healthcare.gov rollout is often pointed to as an example of these things going wrong, the site crashed, and it would be easy to say it needed more hardware, but actually the core issue was that it was "enterprise software" – it was software built by people used to building software for small numbers of expert users in a company who might go through training, who might be using on-prem servers, who might have a lot of complex business requirements. The big improvement came when a bunch of producty-UXy sorts of people came along and scrapped most of the system, made a simple piece of user-facing software that did the minimum necessary, and built it with modern (at the time) web technologies, not from throwing hardware at it.

Re: How to make a great government website

#18

Hardware. Lots of hardware. The first law of govt sites is insanely high usage, clustered around very specific date and times. The first rule of govt websites is "thou shalt not crash". For startup folks dreaming of growing a single horn, over provisioning is an indulgence, scaling design an all-too-often vanity. But govt sites should be designed for insane scale from day 1.

I disagree. Most content on government sites is static content, you could fairly easily deliver much of that to a large population with relatively little hardware, assuming the software is developed such that static delivery is possible. There are "processes" that people need to complete, but these are typically life-changing processes, things you do once in your life, or maybe once a year at most. Even if those are…

Yep HealthCare.gov , but its by far not the only site to struggle. And hardware goes beyond cpu and includes things like hardware for the database, resilient fall-over, network bandwidth (ok, less of an issue these days) and so on.

Sure, it takes more than -just- hardware, and yes sites can be more-or-less resource hungry. But ultimately "the server is offline" is not a good thing.

Lots of things cluster when you don't expect it. Like sites to take bookings for national parks (as an example).

Re: How to make a great government website

#19
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure if this is a joke but if not.. Governments often have complicated forms that need to cater for a broad range of users. So you need things like conditioning steps, file uploads and progress saving. Have fun doing that in pure HTML and CSS.

gov.uk recommends having a single question per page - principally to make the form easier for users, but it also means you can handle progress saving and conditional sections and so on server-side. https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/design/form-structure

gov.uk is pretty good, and their forms are quite good. But there are definitely still places where this design is worse than one using JavaScript.

For example when paying for tax free childcare you have to enter a date for when you want the payment to go out. Not only is the date picker just three edit boxes (no "tomorrow" button for example), but it isn't validated at all so if you put in today's date (quite reasonable) and click next it will only tell you on the next page that you can't use today.

It would be much better if a tiny bit of JavaScript told you as soon as you put the date in, and if it had a "tomorrow" button, which would also require some JavaScript.

JavaScript was invented for a reason!

Re: How to make a great government website

#20
post #2

Dave Guarino needs to read Seeing Like a State, Seeing Like a Bank, and Seeing Like a Data Structure. And then write his own Seeing Like a Government Website. https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300078152/seeing-like-a-... https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/seeing-like-a-bank/ https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/seeing-data-structu...

I know Dave personally, and I can assure you he’s read Seeing Like a State! In fact, if you spend more than 30 seconds in his presence he’ll probably give you a copy.
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