How much you want to bet one or both of these folks saw patio11's Seeing Like a Bank here on Hacker News a few months ago, read it, then read Seeing Like a State, and then wrote this? Because I did the same thing (my version for my problem still in draft) https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/seeing-like-a-bank/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38180477 Also, Seeing Like a State seems to be something of an cult…
Seeing Like a Data Structure
11–20 of 35 posts
Re: Seeing Like a Data Structure
#12Well written and engaging, but I think there is a lot more room to really explore what the sociological, techno-economic, power dynamic etc ramifications are of specific data structures. This doesn’t go too far beyond the surface level notion of data , and there are plenty of discussions of the historical significance of taxonomizing and “objectifying” and archiving and surveilling the world into data from Foucault t…
Word salad.
Re: Seeing Like a Data Structure
#13Ted Nelson was talking about this decades ago. Prophetic.
Re: Seeing Like a Data Structure
#14One thing that I remember from Seeing Like a State is that people used to be judged by village tribunals, and now we have fair trials at the state level. People used to live in the same place all their life, now we can go in many places. Making things more legible can mean destroying a forest by making it into a monoculture timber operation. It can also mean allowing all kind of people to live as long as they pay taxes, offering them freedom that they couldn't find in a smaller structure.
I think it's very important to remember that the map is not the territory, that unknown unknowns exist as well as known unknowns, that trying to impose to people a specific way of life will often not make them happier. But also that technology has meant better lives for most people on this planet.
Re: Seeing Like a Data Structure
#15Well written and engaging, but I think there is a lot more room to really explore what the sociological, techno-economic, power dynamic etc ramifications are of specific data structures. This doesn’t go too far beyond the surface level notion of data , and there are plenty of discussions of the historical significance of taxonomizing and “objectifying” and archiving and surveilling the world into data from Foucault t…
Re: Seeing Like a Data Structure
#16Well written and engaging, but I think there is a lot more room to really explore what the sociological, techno-economic, power dynamic etc ramifications are of specific data structures. This doesn’t go too far beyond the surface level notion of data , and there are plenty of discussions of the historical significance of taxonomizing and “objectifying” and archiving and surveilling the world into data from Foucault t…
Yeah, the author does not seem to know what a data structure is, or assume the reader does not know and won't mind.
"a local cafe is no longer a community hangout but a data structure containing a menu, a list of reservation options, and a hundred 5-star ratings"
This description is focusing on the "not data structure" parts like what is there, what it means, and what can be done with it; the data structure part would be, how it's arranged and what the impact of that is.
It's still clear what the author means, and they are using the relevant terminology, just the irony is in details being named opposite to what they should be.
Re: Seeing Like a Data Structure
#17> Two decades ago, in his book Seeing Like a State, anthropologist James C. Scott explored what happens when governments, or those with authority, attempt and fail to “improve the human condition.” Scott found that to understand societies and ecosystems, government functionaries and their private sector equivalents reduced messy reality to idealized, abstracted, and quantified simplifications that made the mess more…
Re: Seeing Like a Data Structure
#18> Two decades ago, in his book Seeing Like a State, anthropologist James C. Scott explored what happens when governments, or those with authority, attempt and fail to “improve the human condition.” Scott found that to understand societies and ecosystems, government functionaries and their private sector equivalents reduced messy reality to idealized, abstracted, and quantified simplifications that made the mess more…
This is a general cognitive problem in reducing a higher dimensional object to a lower dimensional representation for processing. For a complex entity like society and/or human wellbeing, it seems inevitable that the representation will mask important non-tangible/non-measurable dimensions of the object being considered.
Re: Seeing Like a Data Structure
#19Ted Nelson was talking about this decades ago. Prophetic.
Any links?
Re: Seeing Like a Data Structure
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, the author does not seem to know what a data structure is, or assume the reader does not know and won't mind.
Feels that if anything, the author is describing computational abstractions, not data structures per se. They mention the term in the text, but then continue to say "data structure" while talking about everything except data structures. For example: "a local cafe is no longer a community hangout but a data structure containing a menu, a list of reservation options, and a hundred 5-star ratings" This description is fo…