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Is College Worth It?

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Re: Is College Worth It?

#11

Post by quartesixte »

pygar wrote: post #7

Graduate level jobs still require you to have recently graduated from something. In my field that means "a degree in computer science or equivalent". It's still the path of least resistance for getting through the door. Yes, there are often other routes, but they all involve working harder than everyone else. Apprenticeships don't really scale for corporate roles, there are too many candidates, and it requires too mu…

Yeah that last bit is important. Businesses are operated by a certain class of people. How you speak, act, make connections, socialize -- if you want to work white-collar, professional jobs (or Grey-Collar ones managing blue-collar ones), you need to have all the appropriate markers and cues. College + the road to college is how those get instilled in you. That piece of paper indicates you have a high probability of correctly displaying all the right traits. Further resume items solidify that.

And yes, for certain technical fields, you will need 4 years of rigorous education in the basics of that field to be basically competent.

For other fields, networks + connections + opportunities is what you will glean (on top of the socialization). And the location matters! I'm sorry, but if you're doing marketing/communication at a state school in Nebraska, you will have a much harder time than the kid going to USC/UCLA/LMU or NYU/Columbia on the same degree. Because those kids will be quickly snapped up for jobs at marketing firms that make enough money to pay them enough money to make the degree worth it.

Re: Is College Worth It?

#12

Post by quartesixte »

ndgold wrote: post #8

I think that college and secondary schooling are worth what you invest into them. The cost of attendance is not an investment in either case. If you cannot afford the cost of attendance, which is significant, then you should not consider attendance in either at all. Your personal effortful reading and learning, and demonstrated efforts to apply that learning make up the investment so to speak. Ultimately, internet re…

Unfortunately, humans are tribal creatures and having certain tribe markers still makes your life a helluva lot easier.

I went to a T20 school in the USA with name brand recognition. I often hang out with close friends who did not. Let me tell you: school discrimination is real. People (including those who gatekeep the first 5 years of your career) treat me differently than my friends once they find out where I'm from. All of a sudden I'm much more interesting. I get told I'm smarter.

Hell, job interviewers softball my questions. My first big-boy job interview's final round went something like this.

Hiring Manager: "So, [T20 School] huh? You had a good time there?"

Me: "Yup, I say it was a great experience."

HM: "That's awesome. I love the campus so beautiful. My kid plays in their afterschool soccer program. You like soccer?"

Me: "Oh yeah I like following Premier League"

HM: "Awesome. How 'bout them Aresnal's right? Anyways, look you seem like a smart kid. You'll probably get the job -- we'll call you next week with details."

And I got the job.

(My second job's phone screen literally started off with "Oh my husband went to [T20 School]. He was two years ahead of you ever run into him? No? That's fine it's a big school. Anyways!)

And I pale in comparison to the kids who went to the Ivies.

Unfortunate. But there's a reason why many dedicate tens of thousands of hours of their youth to beat the competition and break-in.

Re: Is College Worth It?

#14

Post by DaSHacka »

cranberryturkey wrote: post #4

if you are learning a skill sure. i got my degree in business/marketing and it was a complete waste of time.

Surprising, common sentiment among current college-aged zoomers currently advocates the opposite.

I frequently see posts convinced CS/Art jobs will be completely automated by AI in just a few years, and the only way to be safe is to get a business degree and go into management.

I think a lot of it is overblown, but I've already seen a few friends switch their degrees over it.

Re: Is College Worth It?

#15

Post by credit_guy »

quartesixte wrote: post #12
ndgold wrote: post #8

I think that college and secondary schooling are worth what you invest into them. The cost of attendance is not an investment in either case. If you cannot afford the cost of attendance, which is significant, then you should not consider attendance in either at all. Your personal effortful reading and learning, and demonstrated efforts to apply that learning make up the investment so to speak. Ultimately, internet re…

Unfortunately, humans are tribal creatures and having certain tribe markers still makes your life a helluva lot easier. I went to a T20 school in the USA with name brand recognition. I often hang out with close friends who did not. Let me tell you: school discrimination is real. People (including those who gatekeep the first 5 years of your career) treat me differently than my friends once they find out where I'm fro…

It sounds unfair until you look at all this from a different angle.

Lots of companies pay head hunters good money to get valuable candidates. You can think of the Ivies and the other top tier schools as 4-year head-hunting agencies. They first do a selection to see which kids have the most potential. Some of the kids have potential in the fact that they are very hard working, or extremely smart, or both. And some have potential in the fact they have a strong personal network (the legacies). On top of this selection, these universities also provide training. But that's secondary.

Re: Is College Worth It?

#16

Post by __loam »

0x20cowboy wrote: post #9

I have 30 years of industry experience, but I am obviously not as useful as someone who read a book about things other people have done and took a multiple choice quiz about it.

I don't think there's a need to denigrate school like this. There are things I learned through experience but there's also a lot of things I learned when I went back for my masters.

I've been thinking about the disdain that the industry seems to have with respect to education. People are largely expected to train themselves and learn through school, or outside of work. It feels like there's no time set aside during the work day to dive deep on new stuff or things you don't know about. If it's not "useful work", it doesn't get time and attention.

Re: Is College Worth It?

#17

Post by tekla »

0x20cowboy wrote: post #9

I have 30 years of industry experience, but I am obviously not as useful as someone who read a book about things other people have done and took a multiple choice quiz about it.

I find that people who haven't gone to university have no clue how much they don't know.

The best part of university is realizing how dumb you are and that you are ignorant in every way.

Re: Is College Worth It?

#18

Post by mnky9800n »

DaSHacka wrote: post #14
cranberryturkey wrote: post #4

if you are learning a skill sure. i got my degree in business/marketing and it was a complete waste of time.

Surprising, common sentiment among current college-aged zoomers currently advocates the opposite. I frequently see posts convinced CS/Art jobs will be completely automated by AI in just a few years, and the only way to be safe is to get a business degree and go into management. I think a lot of it is overblown, but I've already seen a few friends switch their degrees over it.

I do kind of agree with Jensen Huangs statement about this recently where he says don't learn to code but instead learn a domain deeply. Actually I think you should do both. Understanding how to "computationalize" a domain problem is a very valuable skill.

Re: Is College Worth It?

#19

Post by cranberryturkey »

DaSHacka wrote: post #14
cranberryturkey wrote: post #4

if you are learning a skill sure. i got my degree in business/marketing and it was a complete waste of time.

Surprising, common sentiment among current college-aged zoomers currently advocates the opposite. I frequently see posts convinced CS/Art jobs will be completely automated by AI in just a few years, and the only way to be safe is to get a business degree and go into management. I think a lot of it is overblown, but I've already seen a few friends switch their degrees over it.

You don’t go take a management job out of college

Re: Is College Worth It?

#20

Post by TheCoelacanth »

0x20cowboy wrote: post #9

I have 30 years of industry experience, but I am obviously not as useful as someone who read a book about things other people have done and took a multiple choice quiz about it.

That would be a valid comparison if 30 years of industry experience was something high school students could choose to get instead of spending a few years in college
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