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Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#11

Post by tybris »

genwin wrote: post #4

I'm convinced that even if someone did prove that a basic assumption of modern physics is wrong, it would automatically be assumed in turn that the author is a crackpot, hence the work can be ignored. I'm convinced that the physics community isn't interested in the slightest in new ideas. Of course I'm automatically a crackpot (even beyond a conspiracy theorist) for even suggesting that. As an example to how bad thin…

In all other sciences, if you find a model that predicts something as self-contradictory as a black hole or dark matter, you shrug, figure your assumptions are wrong, and start over. In physics you announce the splendiferous wonders of the universe.

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#13

Post by raverbashing »

iskander wrote: post #8
raverbashing wrote: post #2

The real problem is testing 'theories merging' There are several areas where relativity and quantum mechanics merged, for example, in the discovery and theory of antimatter But most of the experiments of relativity were on 'big things' like planets, and quantum mechanics on 'small things' And between them, the real mystery: gravity. General relativity knows a lot about what gravity does but not so much about where it…

s/Special relativity/General relativity Special relativity ignores gravity altogether, whereas general relativity sneaks gravity into the relativistic framework by equating it with curvature. Both theories are, to me, frustratingly intangible. Like you said, we don't really know where gravity comes from. Really, we don't even have any sort of good intuitions for how to describe what it is. Stuff resists being shoved…

Oops, true! I mixed GR and SR

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#14

Post by Mz »

iRobot wrote: post #12

Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong? As a Sci-Fi fan, "Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light" would be a nice one to be wrong

Your comment looks kind of greyed out. I may have accidentally downvoted you while trying to click on your name. Sorry 'bout that.

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#15

Post by klodolph »

iskander wrote: post #8
raverbashing wrote: post #2

The real problem is testing 'theories merging' There are several areas where relativity and quantum mechanics merged, for example, in the discovery and theory of antimatter But most of the experiments of relativity were on 'big things' like planets, and quantum mechanics on 'small things' And between them, the real mystery: gravity. General relativity knows a lot about what gravity does but not so much about where it…

s/Special relativity/General relativity Special relativity ignores gravity altogether, whereas general relativity sneaks gravity into the relativistic framework by equating it with curvature. Both theories are, to me, frustratingly intangible. Like you said, we don't really know where gravity comes from. Really, we don't even have any sort of good intuitions for how to describe what it is. Stuff resists being shoved…

The problem with tangible/intuitive models is that our sense of what is tangible/intuitive is based primarily on our millions of years living in the Newtonian realm of the universe.

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#16

Post by tybris »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #10
genwin wrote: post #4

I'm convinced that even if someone did prove that a basic assumption of modern physics is wrong, it would automatically be assumed in turn that the author is a crackpot, hence the work can be ignored. I'm convinced that the physics community isn't interested in the slightest in new ideas. Of course I'm automatically a crackpot (even beyond a conspiracy theorist) for even suggesting that. As an example to how bad thin…

I don't see that to be the case. Physicists have been giving their utmost to try to crack open the standard model and prove it wrong for decades. And the same is true elsewhere as well. We thought we had a pretty good grasp on the nature of the expansion of the Universe, but it turned out that the expansion is accelerating. That was a huge reformulation of cosmology. We thought we knew about planetary formation, but…

Well, that's how physics works. Physics is stupefyingly strict about its methods. Most sciences don't put quite as much value into models. The problem is that in a desire to strictly follow the method, physicists have become complacent with regards to extraordinary claims. Sure, the universe is full of dark matter, connected by tiny strings, in between folded up dimensions, but gravity is leaking away into parallel universes, since that's what the model predicts (rather than it just being a mathematical anomaly arising from botched assumptions). It's comparable to an economic model that describes inflation as the work of invisible leprechauns who increase prices during the night. Sure, it might make accurate predictions, hell, it might even be true, but you should not put any value into it unless there is evidence that the universe actually works in the extraordinary way the model claims it does.

Biology has followed a much better path over the past century, and biologists are rapidly building up an extremely thorough understanding of how biological systems work without relying heavily on algebraic models. Physics fails to provide explanations for even the most basic physical phenomena like motion. It's effectively just assumed to exist as a law because some authoritative physicist said so and all other models rely on it.

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#17

Post by mikeash »

genwin wrote: post #4

I'm convinced that even if someone did prove that a basic assumption of modern physics is wrong, it would automatically be assumed in turn that the author is a crackpot, hence the work can be ignored. I'm convinced that the physics community isn't interested in the slightest in new ideas. Of course I'm automatically a crackpot (even beyond a conspiracy theorist) for even suggesting that. As an example to how bad thin…

Did you miss the whole FTL neutrino thing that happened not very long ago? Physics seems to be pretty open to new ideas to me. Even though that was ultimately shown to be an error, no crackpottery was ever suggested.

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#18

Post by InclinedPlane »

tybris wrote: post #16
InclinedPlane wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see that to be the case. Physicists have been giving their utmost to try to crack open the standard model and prove it wrong for decades. And the same is true elsewhere as well. We thought we had a pretty good grasp on the nature of the expansion of the Universe, but it turned out that the expansion is accelerating. That was a huge reformulation of cosmology. We thought we knew about planetary formation, but…

Well, that's how physics works. Physics is stupefyingly strict about its methods. Most sciences don't put quite as much value into models. The problem is that in a desire to strictly follow the method, physicists have become complacent with regards to extraordinary claims. Sure, the universe is full of dark matter, connected by tiny strings, in between folded up dimensions, but gravity is leaking away into parallel u…

Sorry, I don't mean to be insulting, but I find this to be quite laughable. Firstly, neither string theory or "gravity leakage" or more than 4 dimensions of space-time are even remotely accepted theories in physics or cosmology. The theory of dark matter is supported by many hugely disparate lines of evidence. It's the only theory that makes sense given all the evidence.

As for the supposed superiority of biology, I offer up this essay that has resonated with me (especially Fig. 3 at the end): http://protein.bio.msu.ru/biokhimiya/contents/v69/pdf/bcm_14...

Biologists might be making great strides, but they have quite a long way to go.

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#19

Post by evincarofautumn »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #10
genwin wrote: post #4

I'm convinced that even if someone did prove that a basic assumption of modern physics is wrong, it would automatically be assumed in turn that the author is a crackpot, hence the work can be ignored. I'm convinced that the physics community isn't interested in the slightest in new ideas. Of course I'm automatically a crackpot (even beyond a conspiracy theorist) for even suggesting that. As an example to how bad thin…

I don't see that to be the case. Physicists have been giving their utmost to try to crack open the standard model and prove it wrong for decades. And the same is true elsewhere as well. We thought we had a pretty good grasp on the nature of the expansion of the Universe, but it turned out that the expansion is accelerating. That was a huge reformulation of cosmology. We thought we knew about planetary formation, but…

A scientific theory is a low-resolution picture of the truth.

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#20

Post by liber8 »

iRobot wrote: post #12

Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong? As a Sci-Fi fan, "Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light" would be a nice one to be wrong

I'm sure this theory will be proven to be not entirely correct someday. As a corollary, I expect that e=mc^2 will also be slightly modified.
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