I took a commuter train in NJ earlier this year and i was shocked at the windows. Seriously, every other train system in the world can pull off clean windows but not New Jersey? India? Clean windows. China? Clean windows... You can't blame pollution... you can't blame regulation because they've got tons of that in Norway and Japan and they're able to keep their windows clean.
Commuter train window cleaning conundrum in NJ
11–20 of 42 posts
Re: Commuter train window cleaning conundrum in NJ
#12I took a commuter train in NJ earlier this year and i was shocked at the windows. Seriously, every other train system in the world can pull off clean windows but not New Jersey? India? Clean windows. China? Clean windows... You can't blame pollution... you can't blame regulation because they've got tons of that in Norway and Japan and they're able to keep their windows clean.
If only “every other” were true. LIRR, NYC: same problem. Metra, Chicago: same problem.
Re: Commuter train window cleaning conundrum in NJ
#13I took a commuter train in NJ earlier this year and i was shocked at the windows. Seriously, every other train system in the world can pull off clean windows but not New Jersey? India? Clean windows. China? Clean windows... You can't blame pollution... you can't blame regulation because they've got tons of that in Norway and Japan and they're able to keep their windows clean.
It’s not an issue with dirt on the windows, but rather etching/clouding of the window glass which makes it appear dirty.
It’s certainly not unique to NJ: it happens on a lot of older trains in Europe, but I’ve never seen it so bad as in the NJ photos.
I guess something about the coating they use on the glass (to improve safety, insulation, etc) makes it vulnerable to clouding and scratching over time. Climate, air pollution, and/or cleaning techniques used over the years may have contributed to the issue?
Re: Commuter train window cleaning conundrum in NJ
#14Re: Commuter train window cleaning conundrum in NJ
#15It’s crazy that one of the largest commuter rail systems in a state with some of the highest taxes cannot just spend $8 million to replace the windows. I’m sure an audit of contracts or overtime payments could quickly find some extra money.
> ”crazy that one of the largest commuter rail systems in a state with some of the highest taxes cannot just spend $8 million to replace the windows.”
Presumably they don’t want to replace faulty windows with more faulty windows that will just develop the same issue again over time.
And it won’t be just be a case of going out and ordering different windows: train parts have to be carefully tested, certified etc to meet safety regulations.
Re: Commuter train window cleaning conundrum in NJ
#16> Metro-North Railroad and NJ Transit use a single pane of polycarbonate glazing almost a half inch thick.
That's exactly what you'd expect from half an inch of uncoated polycarbonate. Resists rocks and small arms fire, can be pressure washed to remove graffiti, but will scuff.
There are a few ways around that, but they all add cost.
Re: Commuter train window cleaning conundrum in NJ
#17> not being able to see which station the train is at, especially if no announcement is made Wait, they're admitting they know this is a problem? It's such a pain having inaudible announcements or none at all. Is it really so hard to get on the PA for each stop? Then why not have it automated? Or an overhead sign in the car showing eta and name of next station? Ideally both.
>Or an overhead sign in the car showing eta and name of next station?
I believe the cars (definitely the newer ones) have exactly that. It seems like an odd complaint to me, but it's totally possible NJ Transit moved older cars that don't have this feature from more heavily trafficked lines to lines that don't have as much traffic.
Re: Commuter train window cleaning conundrum in NJ
#18I took a commuter train in NJ earlier this year and i was shocked at the windows. Seriously, every other train system in the world can pull off clean windows but not New Jersey? India? Clean windows. China? Clean windows... You can't blame pollution... you can't blame regulation because they've got tons of that in Norway and Japan and they're able to keep their windows clean.
It’s not an issue with dirt on the windows, but rather etching/clouding of the window glass which makes it appear dirty. It’s certainly not unique to NJ: it happens on a lot of older trains in Europe, but I’ve never seen it so bad as in the NJ photos. I guess something about the coating they use on the glass (to improve safety, insulation, etc) makes it vulnerable to clouding and scratching over time. Climate, air po…
The older single level Comet cars don't have this problem nor does the light rail. Seems the solution is to replace with a longer lasting window material which is already known to work.
Re: Commuter train window cleaning conundrum in NJ
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the other hand, it's far harder to break than glass, which is important for equipment that will be subjected to vandals.
why would vandalism be more of an issue for trains than cars?
Because more people will see them and they’re kind of iconic, so they’re a fun target for graffiti. People don’t really vandalize other people’s personal cars unless they have a grudge or they’re trying to break in to steal something. It’s kind of a jerk move.
They’re also parked overnight in more remote areas than most cars. In fairness if you parked your car in an industrial area near a train yard overnight it’s probably more likely to get broken into than on a residential street.
Re: Commuter train window cleaning conundrum in NJ
#20I took a commuter train in NJ earlier this year and i was shocked at the windows. Seriously, every other train system in the world can pull off clean windows but not New Jersey? India? Clean windows. China? Clean windows... You can't blame pollution... you can't blame regulation because they've got tons of that in Norway and Japan and they're able to keep their windows clean.
It’s not an issue with dirt on the windows, but rather etching/clouding of the window glass which makes it appear dirty. It’s certainly not unique to NJ: it happens on a lot of older trains in Europe, but I’ve never seen it so bad as in the NJ photos. I guess something about the coating they use on the glass (to improve safety, insulation, etc) makes it vulnerable to clouding and scratching over time. Climate, air po…
From the end of the story:
"Metro-North Railroad and NJ Transit use a single pane of polycarbonate glazing almost a half inch thick, according to the Federal Railroad Administration.
"NJ Transit isn’t alone in this problem.
"“The south side of the (Long Island Rail Road) M-7 fleet of 830 cars is also opaque,” Versaggi said."
LIRR trains run predominately east-west routes, and (I assume from this comment) apparently do not turn round at the termini.
It does not quite say that the affected LIRR trains also use polycarbonate windows, but it seems likely that they do, and that the cause of the opacity is sunlight damage to polycarbonate, or some plasticizer or other minor component of the windows. It is well-known that polycarbonates absorbs UV, and that energy has to go somewhere...