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Apple, SpaceX, Microsoft return-to-office mandates drove senior talent away

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple, SpaceX, Microsoft return-to-office mandates drove senior talent away

#11

Post by benterix »

itake wrote: post #8

But where did they go? Did they start startups? Join another big tech (if so, who competes with Apple for pay)? There aren’t that many opportunities for people these days, especially at the senior level where titles and compensation is still inflated due to 2020-2022 grants.

> There aren’t that many opportunities for people these days, especially at the senior level where titles and compensation is still inflated due to 2020-2022 grants.

You are joking, right? Apple, SpaceX and Microsoft are not the only game in town.

Re: Apple, SpaceX, Microsoft return-to-office mandates drove senior talent away

#12

Post by legitster »

jjulius wrote: post #5
CurtHagenlocher wrote: post #2

I'm not aware that Microsoft has a "return-to-office" mandate. Maybe that's only for some employees? I know quite a few people on product teams who are 100% remote.

If we read the article instead of just the headline, we see that it makes clear that Microsoft has a hybrid arrangement, and that said hybrid arrangement has still resulted in a loss of employees. >Microsoft, which also enacted a hybrid RTO approach, saw a decline of 5 percentage points.

In that case it's really hard to pin it on RTO.

Re: Apple, SpaceX, Microsoft return-to-office mandates drove senior talent away

#14

Post by bryanlarsen »

itake wrote: post #8

But where did they go? Did they start startups? Join another big tech (if so, who competes with Apple for pay)? There aren’t that many opportunities for people these days, especially at the senior level where titles and compensation is still inflated due to 2020-2022 grants.

SpaceX is well-known for low salaries.

Re: Apple, SpaceX, Microsoft return-to-office mandates drove senior talent away

#15

Post by zem »

legitster wrote: post #12
jjulius wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we read the article instead of just the headline, we see that it makes clear that Microsoft has a hybrid arrangement, and that said hybrid arrangement has still resulted in a loss of employees. >Microsoft, which also enacted a hybrid RTO approach, saw a decline of 5 percentage points.

In that case it's really hard to pin it on RTO.

going from remote to hybrid is still RTO, just not full RTO

Re: Apple, SpaceX, Microsoft return-to-office mandates drove senior talent away

#16

Post by whatevaa »

legitster wrote: post #12
jjulius wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we read the article instead of just the headline, we see that it makes clear that Microsoft has a hybrid arrangement, and that said hybrid arrangement has still resulted in a loss of employees. >Microsoft, which also enacted a hybrid RTO approach, saw a decline of 5 percentage points.

In that case it's really hard to pin it on RTO.

Something like 3 days per week is pretty much RTO.

Re: Apple, SpaceX, Microsoft return-to-office mandates drove senior talent away

#17

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

legitster wrote: post #12
jjulius wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we read the article instead of just the headline, we see that it makes clear that Microsoft has a hybrid arrangement, and that said hybrid arrangement has still resulted in a loss of employees. >Microsoft, which also enacted a hybrid RTO approach, saw a decline of 5 percentage points.

In that case it's really hard to pin it on RTO.

It sounds like it is group dependent. Some managers might insist on firm RTO. Hard to get to that level of nuance from high level numbers.

Re: Apple, SpaceX, Microsoft return-to-office mandates drove senior talent away

#18

Post by legitster »

I think the outcome of all of this is going to be much more aggressive cost-of-living adjustments.

It provides real, non-negligible value to sit in the same room as your coworkers. If companies want to reap that value though, they are going to have to pay for it. I think the days of setting up shop in downtown SF and just expecting talent to show up are over.

Re: Apple, SpaceX, Microsoft return-to-office mandates drove senior talent away

#19

Post by id00 »

benterix wrote: post #11
itake wrote: post #8

But where did they go? Did they start startups? Join another big tech (if so, who competes with Apple for pay)? There aren’t that many opportunities for people these days, especially at the senior level where titles and compensation is still inflated due to 2020-2022 grants.

> There aren’t that many opportunities for people these days, especially at the senior level where titles and compensation is still inflated due to 2020-2022 grants. You are joking, right? Apple, SpaceX and Microsoft are not the only game in town.

I'd even say Microsoft & SpaceX pays is lower than many other big tech
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