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Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

theanarchistlibrary.org

11–20 of 110 posts

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#11

Another question: do you consider yourself neither left nor right on the political spectrum, because you believe that society is fundamentally broken and both sides just further consumerism in different ways (the right supports big business directly, and the left tries to create equal opportunities for everyone to further consumerism)? If so, then you may be an anarchist.

Graber was an anarchist and a leftist. For example, quoting from https://davidgraeber.org/articles/is-your-job-bullshit-on-ca...

> I’ve been working with people who’ve become big advocates for a universal basic income. It’s not the only solution, but it conforms with my political instincts. People think that is odd because I’m an anarchist. Why would I want a policy where the government would just give people money? Isn’t that giving power to the government? I say, no.

> A basic income would be the perfect leftist antibureaucratic policy. It would not only reduce the number of bureaucrats, but it would get rid of the worst of them, the annoying ones who decide whether you’re really poor enough to deserve this, or whether you’re really married to that person or whether you really live in that room.

He thought there were multiple ways people considered themselves on the left. For example, from https://davidgraeber.org/articles/from-managerial-feudalism-... :

> The conclusion that I came to is that essentially, the left is applying an outdated paradigm: they’re still thinking in terms of bosses and workers in a kind of old-fashioned industrial sense, when what’s really going on is that for most people the key class opposition is caregivers versus managers. Leftist parties are trying to represent both sides at the same time, but they’re really dominated by the latter.

and that "mainstream left" wasn't barely on the left. From https://davidgraeber.org/interviews/i-found-myself-turning-i... :

> Because, in a way, the left began against bureaucratization of life. It’s about freedom. The mainstream left, which is barely left at all at this point in traditional terms … has really embraced a combination of market and bureaucracy, an equal synthesis of the worst aspects of capitalism and the worst aspects of bureaucracy.

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#12

Another question: do you consider yourself neither left nor right on the political spectrum, because you believe that society is fundamentally broken and both sides just further consumerism in different ways (the right supports big business directly, and the left tries to create equal opportunities for everyone to further consumerism)? If so, then you may be an anarchist.

i think you are getting liberalism and "the left" confused

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#13

The terms anarchist and libertarian are both really misunderstood (or misused?) today. At least in the US, most people seem to think libertarians are anarchists and anarchists are terrorists that want to lice in The Purge. I guess that does kind of make sense though. We also don't use the left/right spectrum the way most other cultures do and we've totally redefined what it means to be liberal or conservative. Well l…

To me, all these "isms" have millions of different versions, almost one in each brain.

If you ask a fan of AOC (not all of them obviously), "socialism" might conjure an image of clean and tidy Stockholm, ask a fan of Trump (not all of them obviously) and they'll tell you about Stalin's gulags or how Sweden is overrun by "Muslim terrorist".

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#14
>The first is that human beings are, under ordinary circumstances, about as reasonable and decent as they are allowed to be, and can organize themselves and their communities without needing to be told how.

That's a crock of shit, look at how brutal early civilizations were compared to today. You have an argument over long terms (100+ year spans), but not in the near term.

If you want the assumption to apply to the near term, you have to accept that people behave in part based on the laws and society which they grew up with, which then makes you look weird for being against that system. That's what gives rise to the common decency.

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#15
> Anarchists are simply people who believe human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to.

I find this definition interesting because it seems to me there’s a very prevalent portrayal in media pointing towards the opposite, that is that humans left alone (read, without some powerful/wealthy authority) will unravel into the most depraved state imaginable.

Reading the book factuality was fascinating because it showed me a view of humans that you don’t see in mass media since ordinary is boring and thus we only get either extremes of good or bad (read, saving the Amazon rainforest to a mother killing her child)

Anarchy by this definition is hard to believe (although I aim to) because we are bombarder with the exceptions to the rule

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#16

Another question: do you consider yourself neither left nor right on the political spectrum, because you believe that society is fundamentally broken and both sides just further consumerism in different ways (the right supports big business directly, and the left tries to create equal opportunities for everyone to further consumerism)? If so, then you may be an anarchist.

i think you are getting liberalism and "the left" confused

as do many left-wing political parties

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#17

the best example for a anarchist state is Japan

What? There was anarchist movement in Japan, but it was heavily supressed by the Japanese state and later also by the allied states.

An anarchist state is also kind of an oxymoron.

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#18

>The first is that human beings are, under ordinary circumstances, about as reasonable and decent as they are allowed to be, and can organize themselves and their communities without needing to be told how. That's a crock of shit, look at how brutal early civilizations were compared to today. You have an argument over long terms (100+ year spans), but not in the near term. If you want the assumption to apply to the n…

[flagged]

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#19
That is not the real test:

The real test is:

Your friend’s daughter had her drink spiked and then was raped while passed out by a bunch of frat guys.

If you believe that you and your buddies should get together with guns and baseball bats and go to the Frat house and exact justice/revenge on them, then you might really be an anarchist.

All the situations outlined are nice and good. Self-organization should be the default mode. However, there are situations where you need someone that can use violence to enforce justice. For most people, that would be the state.

Re: Are You an Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You by David Graeber (2000)

#20

>The first is that human beings are, under ordinary circumstances, about as reasonable and decent as they are allowed to be, and can organize themselves and their communities without needing to be told how. That's a crock of shit, look at how brutal early civilizations were compared to today. You have an argument over long terms (100+ year spans), but not in the near term. If you want the assumption to apply to the n…

> That's a crock of shit, look at how brutal early civilizations were compared to today. You have an argument over long terms (100+ year spans), but not in the near term.

That's why I suppose anarchism as an ideology was born in the 19th century. You don't have to make it work through all of humankind history, just in the modern times. I say this and I'm not even an anarchist myself.

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