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NYTimes: Thousands Believe Covid Vaccines Harmed Them. Is Anyone Listening?

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Re: NYTimes: Thousands Believe Covid Vaccines Harmed Them. Is Anyone Listening?

#11

Post by nytesky »

dekhn wrote: post #9
downrightmike wrote: post #3

Honestly that was a risk we all knew about, but the risk of dying from the disease was much higher. That's how it works. Now we'll have these data points to make new medicines safer, because that's what we do.

The issue here is denialism: people with legitimate issues caused by the vaccine reported their problems and aren't getting help. That is at least partly because the public health establishment chose to suppress information and research into COVID vaccine side-effects (whether caused by batch contamination or inherent in the vaccine itself). It took quite some time for the medical establishment to even admit widely t…

You need a new doctor.

1 in 3 unvaccinated adults will get shingles. https://www.cdc.gov/shingles/surveillance.html#:~:text=Shing....

The shingles vaccine can pack a wallop, but shingles pain is extreme and can persist years after the initial illness. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/12093-posther...

Re: NYTimes: Thousands Believe Covid Vaccines Harmed Them. Is Anyone Listening?

#12

Post by dekhn »

nytesky wrote: post #11
dekhn wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue here is denialism: people with legitimate issues caused by the vaccine reported their problems and aren't getting help. That is at least partly because the public health establishment chose to suppress information and research into COVID vaccine side-effects (whether caused by batch contamination or inherent in the vaccine itself). It took quite some time for the medical establishment to even admit widely t…

You need a new doctor. 1 in 3 unvaccinated adults will get shingles. https://www.cdc.gov/shingles/surveillance.html#:~:text=Shing... . The shingles vaccine can pack a wallop, but shingles pain is extreme and can persist years after the initial illness. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/12093-posther...

yes, I have phd in biotech, thanks for telling me stuff I already know and have considered before posting.

Re: NYTimes: Thousands Believe Covid Vaccines Harmed Them. Is Anyone Listening?

#13

Post by doubleg72 »

dekhn wrote: post #9
downrightmike wrote: post #3

Honestly that was a risk we all knew about, but the risk of dying from the disease was much higher. That's how it works. Now we'll have these data points to make new medicines safer, because that's what we do.

The issue here is denialism: people with legitimate issues caused by the vaccine reported their problems and aren't getting help. That is at least partly because the public health establishment chose to suppress information and research into COVID vaccine side-effects (whether caused by batch contamination or inherent in the vaccine itself). It took quite some time for the medical establishment to even admit widely t…

Addressing vaccine side effects? Do you understand how the immune system works and how differently people react to any drugs?? I gotta agree with the other guy and say you need to find another doctor. Idc what your phd is in, you explicitly stated you let a doctor talk you out of a vaccine that provides overwhelming benefits over risks.

Re: NYTimes: Thousands Believe Covid Vaccines Harmed Them. Is Anyone Listening?

#14

Post by lxm »

nytesky wrote: post #7

How do you disentangle damage from the vaccine vs damage from COVID, which often was asymptomatic? There are some acute sudden onset symptoms associated and documented for the vaccine, but I honestly have no idea how to distinguish root cause for effects further distanced from vaccine delivery?

Wasn't a negative COVID test a pre-requisite for getting a vaccine?

Re: NYTimes: Thousands Believe Covid Vaccines Harmed Them. Is Anyone Listening?

#15

Post by dekhn »

doubleg72 wrote: post #13
dekhn wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue here is denialism: people with legitimate issues caused by the vaccine reported their problems and aren't getting help. That is at least partly because the public health establishment chose to suppress information and research into COVID vaccine side-effects (whether caused by batch contamination or inherent in the vaccine itself). It took quite some time for the medical establishment to even admit widely t…

Addressing vaccine side effects? Do you understand how the immune system works and how differently people react to any drugs?? I gotta agree with the other guy and say you need to find another doctor. Idc what your phd is in, you explicitly stated you let a doctor talk you out of a vaccine that provides overwhelming benefits over risks.

my phd's in biophysics and I work in the biotech industry. I do understand (to a limited degree) how the immune system works and how different people react to drugs.

My doctor is an expert in giving advice to people based on her org's current recommendations. I also independently looked at what little information I could glean and don't see anything deeply wrong with her suggestion. I also can easily change my mind, and with a single trip to my normal pharmacist (twice in ~6 months) and get vaccinated at any time that I choose. I'm lucky enough that I can take 3 days of sick leave each time so I'm not trying to work while experiencing side effects (for example, I lost about 2-3 days of work when I had pneumo+flu vaccine a few years ago).

public health and vaccines is a complicated subject; I am no expert, but I can read into the literature and talk to people who work in the field. Please do not assume I am simply blindly following a mistaken doctor's suggestion.

Re: NYTimes: Thousands Believe Covid Vaccines Harmed Them. Is Anyone Listening?

#16

Post by Jimmc414 »

MBCook wrote: post #10
garfij wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The officials each responded with “that very tired mantra: ‘But the virus is worse,’” Dr. Murphy recalled. “Yes, the virus is worse, but that doesn’t obviate doing research to make sure that there may be other options.”

I’m not saying it shouldn’t be looked into. I’m saying the headline overplays the danger and is the kind of irresponsible sensationalism that has lead to a massive increase in vaccine denialism.

Do you believe that people who claim to be injured by a vaccine are lying or their perceived injuries are psychosomatic?

Re: NYTimes: Thousands Believe Covid Vaccines Harmed Them. Is Anyone Listening?

#18

Post by [deleted] »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #16
MBCook wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not saying it shouldn’t be looked into. I’m saying the headline overplays the danger and is the kind of irresponsible sensationalism that has lead to a massive increase in vaccine denialism.

Do you believe that people who claim to be injured by a vaccine are lying or their perceived injuries are psychosomatic?

[deleted]

Re: NYTimes: Thousands Believe Covid Vaccines Harmed Them. Is Anyone Listening?

#19

Post by rstuart4133 »

I couldn't get past the paywall so I can comment on the headline. The answer to "is anyone listening" to an Autralian is "of course someone is listening".

We had prepared enough doses of the AstraZeneca to vaccinate the entire country. Then some people got blood clotting disorders, and a few died. Being over 60 I was prepared to take the risk, but I wasn't given the choice. Most of it was thrown away.

mRNA vaccines had lower risks, but no one would ship them to us. The plan was always to go into lock down until everybody who wanted to be vaccinated could be, so the end result was the country was in lock down for far longer than would have happened if, as the headline implies "no one was listening".

As for the inevitable few unfortunates who did get a severe reaction to the mRNA vaccine - they knew the risks. After AstraZeneca you would have to be living under a rock to not be aware every vaccine came with risks. I don't know about the rest of the world, but being vaccinated is a personal choice in Australia. The choice was take the best vaccine humanity could produce at short notice, or take your chances with COVID.

Re: NYTimes: Thousands Believe Covid Vaccines Harmed Them. Is Anyone Listening?

#20

Post by MBCook »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #16
MBCook wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not saying it shouldn’t be looked into. I’m saying the headline overplays the danger and is the kind of irresponsible sensationalism that has lead to a massive increase in vaccine denialism.

Do you believe that people who claim to be injured by a vaccine are lying or their perceived injuries are psychosomatic?

Not all of them, no. There are going to be side effects or injuries for some people, that’s the unfortunate truth.

But some people are going to think that non-vaccine issues are due to the vaccine due to the proximity of the two events in time. Either issues they already had but hadn’t noticed before getting the vaccine, or total coincidences. Those need to be investigated too rule out possible issues. But even with an obvious explanation people may continue to blame the vaccine.

There are also the group of pseudoscience believers who will truly believe impossible things are the result of the vaccine and may work hard to make their “injury” known.

So I don’t like blindly taking the number of complaints, without even a cursory check for nonsense, and using it in a headline to make it sound like the vaccine’s danger is being covered up, without making it clear how small the percentage is.

Not everyone will file a complaint, true. So even if every complaint was true harm, more people would have been hurt. But billions of doses of the Covid vaccines have been given.

If 20,000 people were injured and “only” one billion doses were given that’s a 1:50,000 ratio. I don’t think the tone of the headline fits a ratio like that.

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