Wow, those RedHat guys in the gitlab tickets and commit descriptions related to this are insufferable. Is this what happens when you get paid for open source work?
The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps
11–20 of 69 posts
Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps
#12:( given the KDE developers (and other devs) did spend a lot time to ensure the applications they create work not just in their personal favorite desktop environment, this is all rather unfortunate, as it is now like it is in a released distro...
GNOME as a project has consistently made itself clear on how it feels about the rest of the desktop Linux ecosystem existing, or working well with it:
2012 — https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotti...
2021 — https://joshuastrobl.com/2021/09/14/building-an-alternative-...
2023 — https://felipec.wordpress.com/2023/03/04/one-decade-later-gn...
2023 — https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-mess-is-not-an-accident-4e...
Nobody should be surprised anymore when GNOME pulls some shady and technically questionable crap to try to make their "product" look better by actively breaking other people's work.
Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps
#13I feel a lot of sympathy for the GNOME developers. They are 15 years past the "let's build something cool!" stage and into the long, long grind of support and compatibility and being expected to work everywhere all the time. As an outsider, it looks like all the cool kids moved on a long time ago so it's basically just people too stubborn to quit working on it and a few paid devs trying to make something happen with pretty limited resources.
That said, as a developer I have basically had enough of GNOME, and I'm porting my personal projects to ImGUI. Does it integrate in the desktop? Not really. Is it pretty? No. It just is what it is (a library for GUI app development) and it doesn't try to be everything else that GNOME does.
Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps
#14I feel a lot of sympathy for the GNOME developers. They are 15 years past the "let's build something cool!" stage and into the long, long grind of support and compatibility and being expected to work everywhere all the time. As an outsider, it looks like all the cool kids moved on a long time ago so it's basically just people too stubborn to quit working on it and a few paid devs trying to make something happen with…
It sounds like an alternative where they just don't pretend they support the thing the don't support was proposed, and shot down because that means they won't show up in UI that only lists things that support the thing?
… And they also control the UI in question?
Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps
#15:( given the KDE developers (and other devs) did spend a lot time to ensure the applications they create work not just in their personal favorite desktop environment, this is all rather unfortunate, as it is now like it is in a released distro...
GNOME as a project has consistently made itself clear on how it feels about the rest of the desktop Linux ecosystem existing, or working well with it: 2012 — https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotti... 2021 — https://joshuastrobl.com/2021/09/14/building-an-alternative-... 2023 — https://felipec.wordpress.com/2023/03/04/one-decade-later-gn... 2023 — https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-mess-is-not-an-…
That first link especially is hyperbolic disingenuous bad faith nonsense. It draws completely wild conclusions that simply don't follow from the GNOME dev quotes or GNOME's behavior it lists in its support. Trying to have a consistent coherent vision for their own project isn't the same as trying to lock users into their project, let alone trying to sabotage other people's projects, nor do they ever say that's what they want to do, or that they view users as "walking billboards", just that they want GNOME to have a consistent experience so they can have basic quality assurance. They're basically trying to avoid the "carrier customized Android" problem. I glanced briefly over the other articles and it seems like they're the same utter drivel, additionally repeating tiresome, worn out, utterly stupid and wrong claims like that GNOME is "a mobile-first" interface or "not suited to the desktop." I use nearly completely vanilla GNOME every day on my desktop, as a power user, and it's amazing --- far better, in fact, than KDE or any other DE I've tried. I've explained at length why, and why their UX choices were justified, before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39985533
Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
GNOME as a project has consistently made itself clear on how it feels about the rest of the desktop Linux ecosystem existing, or working well with it: 2012 — https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotti... 2021 — https://joshuastrobl.com/2021/09/14/building-an-alternative-... 2023 — https://felipec.wordpress.com/2023/03/04/one-decade-later-gn... 2023 — https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-mess-is-not-an-…
That first link especially is hyperbolic disingenuous bad faith nonsense. It draws completely wild conclusions that simply don't follow from the GNOME dev quotes or GNOME's behavior it lists in its support. Trying to have a consistent coherent vision for their own project isn't the same as trying to lock users into their project, let alone trying to sabotage other people's projects, nor do they ever say that's what t…
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Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps
#17I feel a lot of sympathy for the GNOME developers. They are 15 years past the "let's build something cool!" stage and into the long, long grind of support and compatibility and being expected to work everywhere all the time. As an outsider, it looks like all the cool kids moved on a long time ago so it's basically just people too stubborn to quit working on it and a few paid devs trying to make something happen with…
I have no sympathy for them. They implement a spec and make a big song and dance about being open and standards friendly... and then when they don't implement the standard correctly they say they have implemented it correctly, argue about it and then when they are proven incorrect they just close the ticket, even though they could make small changes to fix the problem.
They are just arrogant.
Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps
#18Wow, those RedHat guys in the gitlab tickets and commit descriptions related to this are insufferable. Is this what happens when you get paid for open source work?
I was struggling to find the word that was appropriate, but you nailed it with insufferable. I can't imagine responding with such disdain for developers and users to a sincere request.
Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps
#19Just use KDE and avoid Gnome.
Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps
#20I feel a lot of sympathy for the GNOME developers. They are 15 years past the "let's build something cool!" stage and into the long, long grind of support and compatibility and being expected to work everywhere all the time. As an outsider, it looks like all the cool kids moved on a long time ago so it's basically just people too stubborn to quit working on it and a few paid devs trying to make something happen with…
I have no sympathy for them. They implement a spec and make a big song and dance about being open and standards friendly... and then when they don't implement the standard correctly they say they have implemented it correctly, argue about it and then when they are proven incorrect they just close the ticket, even though they could make small changes to fix the problem. They are just arrogant.
https://youtu.be/gT9F4qHoYlg
They chose violence.
They chose to copy Apple; they chose to go all in on the horrible idea of Convergence, where you have one monitor, and it's a touch screen (and if you don't, you're a second class citizen stuck in the old ways of using, y'know, an actual computer). Modern GTK removes ever more features and has wording like "tap" and "swipe", basically telling you it expects you to be a mobile developer. Everything gets more complex, more poorly documented, and more rigid, and the only thing they tell you is it's gonna happen more, and more often.
If you ask them how to do something GNOME doesn't expect -- like remove rounded corners from your GTK window, they straight up tell you you're stupid for wanting to. Sympathetic lurkers don't know but try to offer some shots in the dark. Later, you figure out it's quite easy -- just undocumented, and the GNOME devs didn't wanna tell you. :D
It's no wonder all GTK apps are toy apps compared to Qt apps and that many projects are switching from GTK to Qt, and never the other way around. Good riddance.