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New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

discover.lanl.gov

11–20 of 329 posts

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#11

Why don’t we just drill into mars and look for fossils? Easy peasy.

I don't remember where I read it, but somebody wrote that a geologist with a hammer could do more science in an afternoon than all our mars probes have done combined. Its hard to do science with a rc car, even if said car is cutting edge.

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mars is big, fossils are small.

There are areas on earth where fossils are abundantly available at the surface. If there was macroscopic life on Mars at some point, there's likely to be some rocky outcrops with them. Layered sedimentary rocks like the ones pictured in https://www.kqed.org/science/24828/nasas-curiosity-rover-fin... are probably good candiates.

The trouble is that while common, we still had to explore our whole planet pretty thoroughly to find them.

We just don't enough machines exploring Mars to do it right now.

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#13

Why don’t we just drill into mars and look for fossils? Easy peasy.

If you took at fairly smart person, give them a set of Earth maps, and had them pick one spot where they could fake landing a rover, and let them travel within a few hundred meters of that spot and drill, like, 100 spots, I wonder what the odds of them finding a fossil?

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#14
post #2

yay, likelihood that we are martians just went up a few basis points

Going up a few basis points would be like increasing the odds 1,000,000x.

I'm not opposed to the idea that life began on Mars, and, I don't know, through some mass ejection a chunk of lifelike stuff landed on earth and seeded it. But it seems like a much harder path to take than to just form life on Earth from the start.

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#15
post #12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are areas on earth where fossils are abundantly available at the surface. If there was macroscopic life on Mars at some point, there's likely to be some rocky outcrops with them. Layered sedimentary rocks like the ones pictured in https://www.kqed.org/science/24828/nasas-curiosity-rover-fin... are probably good candiates.

The trouble is that while common, we still had to explore our whole planet pretty thoroughly to find them. We just don't enough machines exploring Mars to do it right now.

That's fair. I'd expect knowing where we're likely to find them on Earth does at least help inform our few Mars landers' choice of landing sites, though.

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#16
post #12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are areas on earth where fossils are abundantly available at the surface. If there was macroscopic life on Mars at some point, there's likely to be some rocky outcrops with them. Layered sedimentary rocks like the ones pictured in https://www.kqed.org/science/24828/nasas-curiosity-rover-fin... are probably good candiates.

The trouble is that while common, we still had to explore our whole planet pretty thoroughly to find them. We just don't enough machines exploring Mars to do it right now.

Would orbiting satellites with lidar sensors be able to find suitable candidate sites for digging?

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#17

Why don’t we just drill into mars and look for fossils? Easy peasy.

For half the history of life on Earth there were no multicellular animals at all[1]. Given how quickly life on Earth arrived I wouldn't be surprised if there were bacteria on Mars. But given how long it took Earth life to develop Eukaryotic cells I'd be surprised if Mars ever developed something as sophisticated as an amoeba. Still, Bacteria do leave fossils like stromatolites and some scientists even think some Mars rock parts look sort of like bacteria fossils[2]. But those are more ambiguous than little skeletons or shells.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Earth

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Hills_84001#:~:text=In%2....

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#18
One thing that has annoyed me is in the 1970s the Viking landers did experiments to check for the presence of life on Mars known as the Labeled Release experiments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_lander_biological_exper... which dropped a nutrient solution with radioactive Carbon-14 to detect if there was any off gassing to detect if anything metabolized the soil. And both experiments showed positive results but it has been dismissed since chemical reactions could not be ruled out. But here is the thing, the experiments then did a sterilization control where they heated up the soil to 320 F for 3 hours and attempted the experiment again and no gasses were detected which is something you'd expect to see if the gasses were produced by microbes and not chemical processes.

Now is this a positive detection of life? No because other possible factors can not be ruled out. But what puzzles me is why we have never followed up with any further experiments to try and detect life? After the Viking missions we never conducted any further experiments that could rule out any other possible chemical reactions to get closer to confirming the presence of microbial life.

So I would say with the Labeled Release experiments coupled with the seasonal Methane detections strongly imply that there is still microbial extremophiles on Mars.

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#19
post #2

yay, likelihood that we are martians just went up a few basis points

> yay, likelihood that we are martians just went up a few basis points

I bet there's some non-life explanation, probably having to do with weird chemistry that happens on Mars over long periods, but is not so significant on Earth.

The article says the Earth-chemistry that creates these minerals involves the oxygen in the atmosphere, but it doesn't seem plausible to me that Mars's atmosphere was ever oxygenated. It took billions of years for the Earth's atmosphere to become oxygenated, and it sounds like Mars lost most of its atmosphere fairly quickly.

Re: New findings point to an Earth-like environment on ancient Mars

#20

Why don’t we just drill into mars and look for fossils? Easy peasy.

For half the history of life on Earth there were no multicellular animals at all[1]. Given how quickly life on Earth arrived I wouldn't be surprised if there were bacteria on Mars. But given how long it took Earth life to develop Eukaryotic cells I'd be surprised if Mars ever developed something as sophisticated as an amoeba. Still, Bacteria do leave fossils like stromatolites and some scientists even think some Mars…

That’s the part that still boggles my mind. How could there not be some kinda micro bacteria on all these planets.
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