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What language is the majority of startups using today?

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Re: What language is the majority of startups using today?

#11

Post by bootload »

nostrademons wrote: post #4

Python + JavaScript + Flash. The server-side choice between Python and Ruby is completely arbitrary; I suspect either one could do the job equally well. I was swayed by the somewhat greater availability of libraries for Python, plus I thought it'd be easier to get Python programmers if we got big enough to hire, plus it's somewhat more likely that an acquirer will use Python than Ruby. PHP or Perl could also have don…

"... Python + JavaScript + Flash. ..."

Nostra... what's the front/back ratio? I remember reading Ryan from Wufoo's "Web App Autopsy" ~ ( http://particletree.com/features/web-app-autopsy/ ) was quoting 60% front-end to 40% back-end code ratios.

Re: What language is the majority of startups using today?

#12

Post by adrianh »

Django and Python. Because they're just that good.

But, really, use what you're good at. If you're working on a startup, do you really want to spend valuable time getting up to speed with a programming language that you don't know and are only learning because random people on the Internet told you they were using it?

Re: What language is the majority of startups using today?

#14

Post by johnrob »

Rolled my own framework with mod_python. I am sick of reading docs to figure something out. Also, the bugs in my framework code are easy to fix compared to those found in the 'real' code. I don't think the cost of a home grown framework is high if you spend more than a few months on something.

Re: What language is the majority of startups using today?

#15

Post by niels »

I used webpy for my last site, but recently changed development to django. Django is really easy to learn, and provides a full stack of components that integrates really well together. I used AJS javascript library, but has changed to JQuery this time. Mostly because of JQuery's numerous plugins.

Re: What language is the majority of startups using today?

#16

Post by nostrademons »

bootload wrote: post #11
nostrademons wrote: post #4

Python + JavaScript + Flash. The server-side choice between Python and Ruby is completely arbitrary; I suspect either one could do the job equally well. I was swayed by the somewhat greater availability of libraries for Python, plus I thought it'd be easier to get Python programmers if we got big enough to hire, plus it's somewhat more likely that an acquirer will use Python than Ruby. PHP or Perl could also have don…

"... Python + JavaScript + Flash. ..." Nostra... what's the front/back ratio? I remember reading Ryan from Wufoo's "Web App Autopsy" ~ ( http://particletree.com/features/web-app-autopsy/ ) was quoting 60% front-end to 40% back-end code ratios.

Hard to tell what the finished product will have, because we're nowhere near done. The site that's currently up at www.diffle.com is 707 lines of HTML, 733 CSS, 6283 Python (including all server administration tools), and 81 JavaScript. (These figures include comments and tests, which are fairly extensive in the Python and basically omitted on the frontend.) However, that's a very Web 1.0 site, with AJAX used in only a couple places where it really improves usability.

The 8 or so prototypes we've done for the more dynamic aspects total about 1000 lines of JavaScript and 3107 lines of ActionScript, but this is misleading. Since they're prototypes, they often copy straight from each other and don't bother to factor out common functionality.

I'm expecting it'll be something like 60/40 front/back by the time we're done, with nearly all of the post-launch code going on the front. But much of the JavaScript and ActionScript may be generated by Python scripts running on the backend. Kinda hard to say what's front-end and what back-end then.

Re: What language is the majority of startups using today?

#17

Post by steve »

adrianh wrote: post #12

Django and Python. Because they're just that good. But, really, use what you're good at. If you're working on a startup, do you really want to spend valuable time getting up to speed with a programming language that you don't know and are only learning because random people on the Internet told you they were using it?

I can think of worse reasons, and worse places to ask:)

Re: What language is the majority of startups using today?

#18

Post by steve »

niels wrote: post #15

I used webpy for my last site, but recently changed development to django. Django is really easy to learn, and provides a full stack of components that integrates really well together. I used AJS javascript library, but has changed to JQuery this time. Mostly because of JQuery's numerous plugins.

I'm using webpy for a few sites and it seems great to me. Are there many reasons for the switch? Or did you just want to try something new/better supported?

I'm thinking of taking a look at django just because guido tells me to, but I don't see any strong reason to switch.

Re: What language is the majority of startups using today?

#19

Post by rzwitserloot »

No question. PHP. However, this doesn't mean you should follow suit. In particular, PHP works best as a vanilla choice, something to get set up with quickly. The moment you start using e.g. Cake, the point of PHP is no longer and you should look elsewhere.

There's no useful answer in any case, just hints and use cases. It depends entirely on what you're building.

Heavy single-purpose web app like gmail? No question - GWT.

Light multi-purpose web app with lots of pages but where some ajax here and there wouldn't go amiss: rails looks good.

etcetera.

Re: What language is the majority of startups using today?

#20

Post by nostrademons »

adrianh wrote: post #12

Django and Python. Because they're just that good. But, really, use what you're good at. If you're working on a startup, do you really want to spend valuable time getting up to speed with a programming language that you don't know and are only learning because random people on the Internet told you they were using it?

"If you're working on a startup, do you really want to spend valuable time getting up to speed with a programming language that you don't know"

I did that.

It probably hurt the startup a bit - we'd be moving much faster if I didn't have to learn the technologies as I went along. Thing is - the web technologies I really know well consist of PHP and JSF, and I know them well enough to know that I do not want to be programming in them if I can help it.

I figure that any startup will be taking up a good chunk of your time, and you might as well make it at least semi-enjoyable. I'd much rather put in the up-front effort to learn Python and have a tool that can grow with me than curse PHP's naming conventions or lack thereof for the umpteenth time.

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