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The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

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Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#11

Post by bugglebeetle »

Imnimo wrote: post #4

I don't buy a lot of this analysis. >This week, for instance, Google — despite probably being the most progressive or Silicon Valley company, nevertheless fired dozens of employees involved in pro-Palestine/anti-Israel protests that resemble those on university campuses. I find it extremely hard to believe that Google is going to start not wanting to hire MIT grads because MIT has a protest encampment. This sort of t…

These kinds of think pieces make more sense when you understand them as advertisements that someone is an unscrupulous flack who will toe the establishment line for a paycheck. They’re not intended to be persuasive or really make so much sense, so much as to say “I’ll gladly take money to spout whatever nonsense is needed to make your views seem credible or popular.”

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#12

Post by jcranmer »

bruceb wrote: post #3

When the richest and most powerful start sending their kids to public school then I might believe this. Until then the title makes for good clickbait but nothing believable. This tweet I read earlier today lays out the case: "The best reason to go to a top 10 American university: In a random class you'll have a governor's daughter, the son of a billionaire and two guys with 170+ IQ. It's a hell of a group of people t…

The point I gave up reading was when Nate started arguing that a degree from an Ivy League would look worse than a good state school to employers because those students are clearly political activist nincompoops. And it's like... first off, these trends have been going on for as long as I can remember (and I am no longer young), and second off, you got your fame doing good statistical analysis, surely you could back up your assertions with hard data showing the decline of hiring instead of political punditry. But I'm guessing the data shows the opposite of the political punditry here.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#13

Post by afavour »

I think I agree with Nate’s advice (skip the Ivies, go to a good state school) but I don’t agree with the reasons why.

I don’t think elite private colleges are losing esteem at all (the recent noise about pro-Palestinian protests will be forgotten five minutes after they stop, just like all the other campus protest movements in decades past, this isn’t new!), I just think the economic argument is getting harder and harder to make.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#14

Post by Imnimo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7
Imnimo wrote: post #4

I don't buy a lot of this analysis. >This week, for instance, Google — despite probably being the most progressive or Silicon Valley company, nevertheless fired dozens of employees involved in pro-Palestine/anti-Israel protests that resemble those on university campuses. I find it extremely hard to believe that Google is going to start not wanting to hire MIT grads because MIT has a protest encampment. This sort of t…

> hard to believe that Google is going to start not wanting to hire MIT grads because MIT has a protest encampment There was a time when Google wouldn't consider a candidate if they weren't from MIT. The loss of that monopoly is the point. You aren't disadvantaged going to MIT today relative to a few decades ago. You're just not as relatively advantaged as you once were.

I'm extremely skeptical that this shift has anything to do with protest encampments and coddling concerns.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#15

Post by hehdhdjehehegwv »

DrFalkyn wrote: post #6

I'd say its the exception that you should not go Ivy/elite if you get in. Ivy Leagues have experiences/opportunities that simply are not replicated at state schools. Yes for determined/driven individuals, it may not matter all that much. And if you are not going to take advantage of what those elites have to offer, maybe you should reconsider if the financial burden is too high.

And the resumé boost is for life.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#16

Post by rblatz »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #5
bruceb wrote: post #3

When the richest and most powerful start sending their kids to public school then I might believe this. Until then the title makes for good clickbait but nothing believable. This tweet I read earlier today lays out the case: "The best reason to go to a top 10 American university: In a random class you'll have a governor's daughter, the son of a billionaire and two guys with 170+ IQ. It's a hell of a group of people t…

The richest can pay 20x more for something only slightly better and genuinely think it's a great deal. You can't.

It’s always been the network, and it always will be. I went to a public university, all my friends and roommates are doing well, but none of them have started a company worth more than a million or so. Some are director level at big tech companies, but none are exec level.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#17

Post by hehdhdjehehegwv »

bugglebeetle wrote: post #2

One of the worst, most embarrassing mistakes one can make as they age is to believe themselves so wise as to offer up unsolicited advice to the young.

I don’t think you should even be allowed to vote past 40.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#18

Post by asveikau »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #5
bruceb wrote: post #3

When the richest and most powerful start sending their kids to public school then I might believe this. Until then the title makes for good clickbait but nothing believable. This tweet I read earlier today lays out the case: "The best reason to go to a top 10 American university: In a random class you'll have a governor's daughter, the son of a billionaire and two guys with 170+ IQ. It's a hell of a group of people t…

The richest can pay 20x more for something only slightly better and genuinely think it's a great deal. You can't.

I think it's pretty unpredictable how much value you will get out of a particular institution.

Firstly, students enter at a time when they're still figuring out what life is. You could do a lot of research on how to maximize the best professors or network in a field but most won't predict what specialty they'll end up with. Even if they do, they're so young they could not know how to judge the quality of an authority yet, so who is to say you will estimate that correctly?

The other reason people want top schools is for networking with other students. Some people will get a lot out of that and others won't. There's a bit of randomness involved. You could maximize your odds of being surrounded with good networks by going to the best school but honestly, I doubt you can truly predict the worth of that for an individual student.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#19

Post by anothernewdude »

afavour wrote: post #13

I think I agree with Nate’s advice (skip the Ivies, go to a good state school) but I don’t agree with the reasons why. I don’t think elite private colleges are losing esteem at all (the recent noise about pro-Palestinian protests will be forgotten five minutes after they stop, just like all the other campus protest movements in decades past, this isn’t new!), I just think the economic argument is getting harder and h…

I think they are losing esteem, but some silly protests aren't why. The selection process itself is deeply, deeply flawed and interacts poorly with incentives for education. Feedback on performance is muddled up with the effects of networking with monied up people.

Not much of this is positive. Their ability to hire and the amount of money they have still is, I suppose. Assuming those are focused on teaching, though, which I doubt.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#20

Post by bugglebeetle »

makeitshine wrote: post #10
bugglebeetle wrote: post #2

One of the worst, most embarrassing mistakes one can make as they age is to believe themselves so wise as to offer up unsolicited advice to the young.

The only advice you can give the young is unsolicited. They'll never ask for it because they already believe they know everything. I'm fully aware my reply is ridiculous, much like what I was responding to.

That wasn’t my experience at all. Most people who gave me advice unsolicited gave me bad advice, while those I sought out were hesitant to steer me, but what they did provide, was quite valuable.
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