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I love programming but I hate the programming industry

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Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#11

Post by graemep »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #2

It’s not the “programming industry” that OP hates, it’s the “corporate world”. I’ve worked with (and have been) developers who have mismatched expectations on what “the real world” wants out of them. The corporate world doesn’t give a shit about finesse, abstractions, witty or beautiful code. They care about finding developers who will pump out features to the business requirements. Some human beings in that cog (man…

> if you aren’t moving the needle economically for the company, you’re a liability.

I would add, moving the needle in the short term. A business taking a long term view would care more about quality (reliability, security maintainability).

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#12

Post by _trampeltier »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #2

It’s not the “programming industry” that OP hates, it’s the “corporate world”. I’ve worked with (and have been) developers who have mismatched expectations on what “the real world” wants out of them. The corporate world doesn’t give a shit about finesse, abstractions, witty or beautiful code. They care about finding developers who will pump out features to the business requirements. Some human beings in that cog (man…

A part of the problem is, no user ever look at codebases. Unlike you da a PCB, make an electrical machine, build a bridge, people see the result. In software people see the UI. Also because copying is free, in PCB for ex. every jumper wire cost you, in software they are for free. So why fixing things truely.

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#13

Post by jajko »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #2

It’s not the “programming industry” that OP hates, it’s the “corporate world”. I’ve worked with (and have been) developers who have mismatched expectations on what “the real world” wants out of them. The corporate world doesn’t give a shit about finesse, abstractions, witty or beautiful code. They care about finding developers who will pump out features to the business requirements. Some human beings in that cog (man…

And this is general approach, nothing malevolent against IT geeks like some less experienced try to project themselves. They want plumbers also just to keep things running and implement requirements, not have academic discussions about fine art of optimized water flow.

Companies are there to make money for the owners and thats it, not on some altruistic missions.

I think OP could be better served in academia as long as he keeps greed for money at bay, which some manage better than others over time.

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#14

Post by krautsourced »

This feels like the author simply went for the entirely wrong jobs. It sounds like what he wants is to make decisions, and those you can only make in small teams, small companies, and in lead positions. Going for any sort of FAANG or corporate job is the opposite of this - and that is not specific to programming jobs in any way. Nobody is 'free to just improve the world' in a large group.

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#15

Post by _a_a_a_ »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #2

It’s not the “programming industry” that OP hates, it’s the “corporate world”. I’ve worked with (and have been) developers who have mismatched expectations on what “the real world” wants out of them. The corporate world doesn’t give a shit about finesse, abstractions, witty or beautiful code. They care about finding developers who will pump out features to the business requirements. Some human beings in that cog (man…

Yeah, maybe they don't care about abstraction and beautiful code, but they suddenly start caring when technical debt caused by absence of these things starts to hit, but they are too often unable to see that the two are related.

In my personal project I spend a huge amount of time tidying things up, abstracting, cleaning, commenting and that has really started to pay off as the project grew. If I'd let it deteriorate into a random bowl of software stew, I have come to a dead end by now, eternally firefighting instead of progressing.

> if you aren’t moving the needle economically for the company, you’re a liability

yup

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#16

Post by whiplash451 »

f0e4c2f7 wrote: post #10

Startup time! Has its own tradeoffs but you get to go compete with the system that is maddening. Imagine them trying to run a race against people who are actually trying? That's why startups are able to win against huge companies with seemingly unlimited resources. They use those resources to fight internally over who controls the resources. Startups have their own perils of course. But you get to do work. Real actua…

Also happens in a lot of seemingly-boring midsize companies (not just startups)

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#18

Post by thn-gap »

msephton wrote: post #3

Solution: go independent, work on your own ideas, and sell them to consumers. That might be your own start-up, but for me it was to become an indie game developer. One of my games, YOYOZO, was featured in Ars Technica's "Best Video Games of 2023" so I feel my decision was the right one.

How did you do this transition? How did you feel about your decision before your game was featured? I've been thinking about this path, but I feel too hesitant to jump.

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#19

Post by light_hue_1 »

> 90% of the time when I read descriptions it is excruciatingly obvious to me that whatever code the chosen candidates will end up writing at this job will be completely removed from any important problem not only humanity, but even any individual human has ever had

> ...

> So far I haven’t had the chance to actually meet someone who would share these values in any significant sense and would want to do this kind of engineering work

There are countless such places!

There are NGOs that desperately need good engineers to build software that's essential to helping people. There are labs that do research on various disorders, or on hard engineering problems that need desperately software engineers.

You're totally looking in the wrong places.

Re: I love programming but I hate the programming industry

#20

Post by chii »

graemep wrote: post #11
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #2

It’s not the “programming industry” that OP hates, it’s the “corporate world”. I’ve worked with (and have been) developers who have mismatched expectations on what “the real world” wants out of them. The corporate world doesn’t give a shit about finesse, abstractions, witty or beautiful code. They care about finding developers who will pump out features to the business requirements. Some human beings in that cog (man…

> if you aren’t moving the needle economically for the company, you’re a liability. I would add, moving the needle in the short term. A business taking a long term view would care more about quality (reliability, security maintainability).

Ostensibly that's true, but in the long term we're all dead anyway.

So the company's shareholders might only want the term to be just long enough to cash out.

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