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Why We Practice Magic

press.princeton.edu

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Re: Why We Practice Magic

#11

Post by FrustratedMonky »

rogual wrote: post #8
throwaway35777 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the error there?

"However" isn't a conjunction. It should be "Not many academic philosophers discuss magic. However, five centuries ago..." Using "however" the way the author did will trip up a reader expecting correct English -- once you have "Not many philosophers discuss magic, however" you expect the sentence to end, but it doesn't and you have to go back and reinterpret.

This sentence trips you up?

""Not many academic philosophers discuss magic, however, five centuries ago, prominent Renaissance philosophers, such as Marsilio Ficino (1433–1499), Giovanni Pico della Mirandola (1463–1494), and Giordano Bruno (1548–1600), wrote extensive treatises on the topic""

I think you'll find a lot of people would breeze past this and not debate commas and semicolons.

You are correct, by the letter of the law, according to the semicolon police this should be a semicolon.

But that is like arresting people for jay walking. Yes, it's wrong, but come on.

Re: Why We Practice Magic

#12

Post by marnett »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #11
rogual wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"However" isn't a conjunction. It should be "Not many academic philosophers discuss magic. However, five centuries ago..." Using "however" the way the author did will trip up a reader expecting correct English -- once you have "Not many philosophers discuss magic, however" you expect the sentence to end, but it doesn't and you have to go back and reinterpret.

This sentence trips you up? ""Not many academic philosophers discuss magic, however, five centuries ago, prominent Renaissance philosophers, such as Marsilio Ficino (1433–1499), Giovanni Pico della Mirandola (1463–1494), and Giordano Bruno (1548–1600), wrote extensive treatises on the topic"" I think you'll find a lot of people would breeze past this and not debate commas and semicolons. You are correct, by the lette…

I agree it isn’t going to trip many up, but also agree that the standards of writing coming out of an education institution should be grammatically correct.

Re: Why We Practice Magic

#15

Post by epiccoleman »

I recently discovered the Weird Studies podcast (which I love), and it sent me down an interesting rabbit hole around "magic."

Weird Studies covered a book called "Sex Secrets of the Black Magic Experts" (title is meant to be jokey, not serious), which outlines a sort of modern approach to thinking about "Magic." It doesn't advocate for magic in the sense of literally believing that some ritual or invocation has some physically measurable effect. Rather, it's more about the idea that the mindset inherent to "magical practice" - like the interpretation of omens, or making some plea to a "god" or "force" - can be a useful mindset, a sort of different lens to view the world through.

As someone who spent a lot of time in my teens and early 20s consuming various rationalistic media (science books, New Atheist tracts, skepticism podcasts, etc), my knee jerk reaction to "magic" has mostly been disdain. But it's really interesting to consider it from this different angle and recognize that "magical thinking" has been a big part of the human experience for as long as we've been around. Maybe there's a baby in the bathwater there that we're throwing away, and maybe the notion of the "practice of magic" could be approached in a way that excises the dumb while keeping the good. (I've come to similar thoughts about religion and spirituality as I've gotten older).

Plus, as a nerdy metalhead type, I have to admit to myself that some of this stuff is just cool, and so it's been kind of fun to "allow" myself to dig into some of the various literature out there on "magic". (The whole Chaos Magic thing is full of fun and wacky stuff, check out "Liber Null," for example).

I think the Weird Studies pod I mentioned does a much better job than this post outlining the ideas in SSOTBME, and they covered another book, Technic and Magic, that has some similar thinking. Highly recommend the pod if that sounds even vaguely interesting.

Links:

SSOTBME podcast: https://www.weirdstudies.com/141

Technic and Magic podcast: https://www.weirdstudies.com/134

Re: Why We Practice Magic

#16

Post by empath-nirvana »

epiccoleman wrote: post #15

I recently discovered the Weird Studies podcast (which I love), and it sent me down an interesting rabbit hole around "magic." Weird Studies covered a book called "Sex Secrets of the Black Magic Experts" (title is meant to be jokey, not serious), which outlines a sort of modern approach to thinking about "Magic." It doesn't advocate for magic in the sense of literally believing that some ritual or invocation has some…

Consciousness itself is a magic trick, of a kind.

Re: Why We Practice Magic

#17

Post by wlindley »

Much of the world apparently believed that wearing a muzzle and living like a hermit instead of outdoors, exercise, vitamins, and a normal lifestyle would prevent the common cold. Pure magic over rational science. One wonders what the next generation will think of the insanity of the past few years.

Re: Why We Practice Magic

#18

Post by nico »

epiccoleman wrote: post #15

I recently discovered the Weird Studies podcast (which I love), and it sent me down an interesting rabbit hole around "magic." Weird Studies covered a book called "Sex Secrets of the Black Magic Experts" (title is meant to be jokey, not serious), which outlines a sort of modern approach to thinking about "Magic." It doesn't advocate for magic in the sense of literally believing that some ritual or invocation has some…

Alejandro Jodoworwsky (from Jodorowsky's Dune https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodorowsky's_Dune) is a big proponent of something he calls "Psychomagic"

For example, let's say you are anxious about money, maybe you are afraid of suddenly finding yourself with no money - so, a simple exercise to face that fear could be to leave the house, for the day, with no phone and no wallet, or have someone drop you off on the next town over and have to figure out on your own how to get back home

The main concept is to create "rituals" that help you address the fears that hold you back, in a practical way

Re: Why We Practice Magic

#19

Post by troq13 »

skybrian wrote: post #10

The bit about science not being elitist needs a caveat: anyone can try things and make observations, but that doesn't mean other people will believe them. Being trusted as a source of observations and getting them generally accepted is a social process. Consider nutrition, exercise, anything health related. How many people were in your study? Even then, there's no guarantee. Many papers are ignored. For some things,…

Science is much older than that.

The modern peer review process (as a way to decide which papers get "accepted" vs "rejected") began no earlier than the 1960's.

Re: Why We Practice Magic

#20

Post by sandspar »

nico wrote: post #18
epiccoleman wrote: post #15

I recently discovered the Weird Studies podcast (which I love), and it sent me down an interesting rabbit hole around "magic." Weird Studies covered a book called "Sex Secrets of the Black Magic Experts" (title is meant to be jokey, not serious), which outlines a sort of modern approach to thinking about "Magic." It doesn't advocate for magic in the sense of literally believing that some ritual or invocation has some…

Alejandro Jodoworwsky (from Jodorowsky's Dune https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodorowsky's_Dune) is a big proponent of something he calls "Psychomagic" For example, let's say you are anxious about money, maybe you are afraid of suddenly finding yourself with no money - so, a simple exercise to face that fear could be to leave the house, for the day, with no phone and no wallet, or have someone drop you off on the next…

Cognitive behavioral therapy calls this exposure therapy. It uses repeated exposure and reinforcement (the same things we use to train dogs to shake a paw), tailored specifically for reducing fear and anxiety.
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