Is this a practical solution in America where taxes are more limited than other nations?
What happens when we pay public high school teachers based on performance
11–20 of 128 posts
Re: What happens when we pay public high school teachers based on performance
#12I was a public school teacher that worked in a district that attempted to measure teacher value add. There was limited pay for performance based on that metric. And the district I worked in was majority racial minority and majority living in poverty.
"Using the expiration of preexisting collective bargaining agreements as a source of exogenous variation in the timing of changes in pay, I show that the introduction of flexible pay raised salaries of high-quality teachers, increased teacher quality (due to the arrival of high-quality teachers from other districts and increased effort), and improved student achievement."
"The main dataset contains information on the universe of Wisconsin teachers, linked to student test scores to calculate teacher VA."
"Student Test Scores and Demographics.—Student-level data include math and reading test scores in the Wisconsin Knowledge and Concepts Examination (WKCE 2007–2014) and the Badger test (2015–2016), for all students in grades 3 to 8, as well as demographic characteristics such as gender, race and ethnicity, socioeconomic (SES) status, migration status, English-learner status, and disability."
What this study is saying is that paying teachers more for improved performance by their students on standardized tests results in higher standardized test scores of their students. That does not surprise me. In my experience, this system encouraged teaching to the test (focusing the majority of instruction on test prep rather than traditional instruction) and widespread cheating. Both of these efforts raise standardized test scores. The study assumes that standardized test scores are a direct measure of teacher quality and student achievement. In my experience that is not true.
Re: What happens when we pay public high school teachers based on performance
#13I saw this discussed on Marginal Revolution today as well. My main question is whether the gains are fundamentally zero-sum, at least in the short term. Some districts implement flexible pay and some don’t, and then the best teachers move to get paid more. And the places that get left behind…? In the long-run, increased pay ought to lead to more high-quality teachers entering the profession. But in the short term, th…
>And the places that get left behind…?
Think of it as government-performance based teaching quality variations.
>But in the short term, this scheme seems likely to redistribute talent in ways that reinforce existing patterns of inequality.
Only if disadvantaged districts are less likely to switch to performance-based pay. What is the basis for thinking this will happen?
Re: What happens when we pay public high school teachers based on performance
#14I saw this discussed on Marginal Revolution today as well. My main question is whether the gains are fundamentally zero-sum, at least in the short term. Some districts implement flexible pay and some don’t, and then the best teachers move to get paid more. And the places that get left behind…? In the long-run, increased pay ought to lead to more high-quality teachers entering the profession. But in the short term, th…
Well the whole point of such an experiment would be to generalize it.
Sure, but if the gains in an experiment come from cannibalizing other districts, then it's not a good guide to what will happen when everyone's in the experiment. Do you attract more people to the profession? Or do people get discouraged by seeing variable outcomes they can't predict ahead of time?
Re: What happens when we pay public high school teachers based on performance
#15I saw this discussed on Marginal Revolution today as well. My main question is whether the gains are fundamentally zero-sum, at least in the short term. Some districts implement flexible pay and some don’t, and then the best teachers move to get paid more. And the places that get left behind…? In the long-run, increased pay ought to lead to more high-quality teachers entering the profession. But in the short term, th…
How would it reinforce existing patterns of inequality if low-income school districts move to a flexible pay model, thereby attracting better teachers?
Re: What happens when we pay public high school teachers based on performance
#16I saw this discussed on Marginal Revolution today as well. My main question is whether the gains are fundamentally zero-sum, at least in the short term. Some districts implement flexible pay and some don’t, and then the best teachers move to get paid more. And the places that get left behind…? In the long-run, increased pay ought to lead to more high-quality teachers entering the profession. But in the short term, th…
An other more direct issue is Goodhart’s law: if teacher compensation is linked to a specific metric, then that metric is what you’ll get. If the metric is test scores, then you’ll see:
- teaching to the test rather than educating
- trying to get rid of left behind, slow, or difficult students (already an issue for generations in test-oriented private institutions — as opposed to the more remedial “last chance” ones)
- ignoring the groups which have the lowest odds of contributing to the metric (which groups it is depends on the weighting / averaging between pupils)
Re: What happens when we pay public high school teachers based on performance
#17Hot take: you need to define performance and you can't without market feedback. So being about to freely chose a school and direct your money to it has to be the first prerequisite to even thinking about performance based pay. Some bureaucratic performance definition will just have people optimize for that.
Re: What happens when we pay public high school teachers based on performance
#18I was a public school teacher that worked in a district that attempted to measure teacher value add. There was limited pay for performance based on that metric. And the district I worked in was majority racial minority and majority living in poverty. "Using the expiration of preexisting collective bargaining agreements as a source of exogenous variation in the timing of changes in pay, I show that the introduction of…
My fear as well. Is there a better way to assess teacher quality, especially in challenging student environments?
Re: What happens when we pay public high school teachers based on performance
#19The results confirm my biases, so probably too good to be true?
Is the statement "monetary rewards for performance improve overall performance" considered bias, or just common sense?
Re: What happens when we pay public high school teachers based on performance
#20Is this a practical solution in America where taxes are more limited than other nations?
The implication being that countries with more taxes can afford to waste money by paying bad teachers well?