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Going in circles without a real-time clock

rachelbythebay.com

11–20 of 157 posts

Re: Going in circles without a real-time clock

#11
My raspberry pi is also currently dead, something it didn't like about updating the OS caused it to be bricked. All updates were done within the OS, so didn't expect anything bad to happen.

I could reflash the OS, but I also "don't have the time". I'll just use my laptop until I do have the time someday to resurrect it.

Re: Going in circles without a real-time clock

#12
post #6

What is she referring to by “THE ONE”?

The know it all. This “wouldn’t have happened to them because they are” THE ONE. Also known as, “that guy” as in, “don’t be THAT GUY.”

As sibling comment somewhat points out, she is literally referencing The One (2001)

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0267804/

Re: Going in circles without a real-time clock

#13

tl;dr: machine is unable synchronize its clock because it won't trust the NTP server's DNSSEC certificate because its clock isn't synchronized. Oof.

This is the perennial problem with trying to secure NTP. I've also seen people suggest that we just use HTTPS for time sync, not realizing that if your clocks are too far off you can't make a HTTPS connection.

Re: Going in circles without a real-time clock

#14
Speaking of RTC battery, I've recently come to the realization that I have to make sure that BIOS battery is not absolutely dead in always-on PC boxes.

Background: I use an x86 box as home router. I've changed the configuration in the BIOS that it should automatically boot up on power. However if the BIOS battery is dead, the config will be lost and it will revert to default settings, which is not to boot on power.

But there is no way to know how much juice is left in the BIOS battery, thus there is no way to issue warnings that the battery should be replaced soon. If there is power loss AND the battery is dead, when the power comes back up again, the router will just stay off indefinitely until it's manually turned on.

That's when I realized why most consumer routers do not feature RTC nor do they require batteries.

Re: Going in circles without a real-time clock

#16
post #14

Speaking of RTC battery, I've recently come to the realization that I have to make sure that BIOS battery is not absolutely dead in always-on PC boxes. Background: I use an x86 box as home router. I've changed the configuration in the BIOS that it should automatically boot up on power. However if the BIOS battery is dead, the config will be lost and it will revert to default settings, which is not to boot on power. B…

Most newer systems persist EFI options to NVRAM now days as well. Pulling the battery isn't generally enough to reset them anymore.

Re: Going in circles without a real-time clock

#17
post #14

Speaking of RTC battery, I've recently come to the realization that I have to make sure that BIOS battery is not absolutely dead in always-on PC boxes. Background: I use an x86 box as home router. I've changed the configuration in the BIOS that it should automatically boot up on power. However if the BIOS battery is dead, the config will be lost and it will revert to default settings, which is not to boot on power. B…

Some unsolicited solutions, maybe not for you but somebody in a similar situation: maybe replace it with a supercapacitor (needs some wiring changes, otherwise it won't ever be charged, should last long enough for most power outages), or use a stack of coin cells in parallel (difficult due to physical dimensions, and they'll still go dead at some point). You can also short two wires on the ATX supply to automatically turn on the computer when power is supplied (which may not be good enough if you have to press a key during boot to dismiss the low battery warning). Or hack the BIOS :)

Re: Going in circles without a real-time clock

#18

tl;dr: machine is unable synchronize its clock because it won't trust the NTP server's DNSSEC certificate because its clock isn't synchronized. Oof.

This is the perennial problem with trying to secure NTP. I've also seen people suggest that we just use HTTPS for time sync, not realizing that if your clocks are too far off you can't make a HTTPS connection.

It takes more creativity, but you can start to make a narrowing range of times if you're careful.

You'll have to ignore DNSSEC time based validation while you start up, of course... Start with the last time you were properly synced: it's most likely less than a month behind then.

Then take a sampling of certificates offered from well known sites. If the certificates validate, other than time, no reasonable CA that you trust issues not-before dates in the future, so it's not before the most recent not-before date in a certificate. It's probably not much after the not-after dates either, well know sites tend to replace their certificates (but maybe you're getting MITMed with a compromised, old certificate).

Maybe ask for OSCP stapling, which should get you a more narrow range of times. I think OSCP responses are valid for a week? But if you get several from different https servers, chances are good you'll narrow the range.

In the case as suggested that the time was only off by about a day, IMHO, something is seriously wrong if it can't get to sync from there, but I guess I'm not really surprised either.

Re: Going in circles without a real-time clock

#19
post #16
post #14

Speaking of RTC battery, I've recently come to the realization that I have to make sure that BIOS battery is not absolutely dead in always-on PC boxes. Background: I use an x86 box as home router. I've changed the configuration in the BIOS that it should automatically boot up on power. However if the BIOS battery is dead, the config will be lost and it will revert to default settings, which is not to boot on power. B…

Most newer systems persist EFI options to NVRAM now days as well. Pulling the battery isn't generally enough to reset them anymore.

My desktop remembers all settings, but after power loss still goes into a warning where I have to press F1 to enter settings, then exit them without making changes. I couldn't find an option to not do that.

Re: Going in circles without a real-time clock

#20

> By "everything else", I also mean WireGuard. Did you know that if your machine gets far enough out of sync, that'll stop working, too? I had no idea that it apparently includes time in its crypto stuff, but what other explanation is there? WireGuard only requires a monotonic clock, because it periodically rotates keys to provide the forward secrecy. Peer clocks are otherwise not required to be synchronized [1]. I g…

Why does it use the time then? Why not just increment its own 96 bit number whenever you use it?
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