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New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

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Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#11

Post by [deleted] »

FuzzyDunlop wrote: post #6
wyclif wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know education is a common theme here on HN, and I always read articles like this. I still think education (esp. in US and UK) is ripe for entrepreneurial disruption, and I enjoy seeing what investors are doing in this space. The system is clearly broken, because incentives are out of proportion to costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if the system operated in the system's best interest, and not the student's. I only have anecdotal evidence, but from my own experience, the whole system was designed to keep you in the system for as long as possible. This may have been exacerbated by stupid government targets to get, say, at least 50% of all pupils into university. And in at least some of those cases, you're only going becaus…

[deleted]

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#12

Post by holdenc »

For some people a college degree can lead to a crippling level of entitlement, and unwillingness to do the kind of work they hoped to escape by attending college. A college degree doesn't preclude someone from waiting tables, cleaning up messes and answering phones. Though many graduates seem to be confused about this.

For unemployed colleges grads -- here's a rudimentary formula for success. Start a free website with Weebly and call it IWillMopItUp.com. And let people know that you will mop up their mess for $20 and hour. Pretty crappy right? Yes, but it epitomizes the can do attitude and whatever it takes mentality that matters in this difficult economy. The bottom line is that very hard working smart college grads still have opportunities, but the first step is them getting over the fact they went to college.

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#13

Post by nextstep »

cperciva wrote: post #9
mojaam wrote: post #2

Ugh, so depressing... go to college, rack up enormous amounts of debt, and hope to find a job so that you can start paying off the monthly minimums for the seemingly the rest of your life.

In certain fields the "go into debt to pay for an education which will help you get a good job" strategy works well. Unfortunately, governments and educational institutions have taken "college graduates earn X% more and have a Y% lower unemployment rate" statistics and pretended that they apply to all college graduates, regardless of their field. Only a fool would think that a degree in underwater basket weaving woul…

It hasn't been too long since I was starting college. For freshman (in the US at least), colleges encourage students to try lots of classes and take their time picking a major. Many schools don't require students to declare a track until they are in their sophomore year -- halfway through a four-year program! Many can be completed in 2-3 years (even "hard" majors, like physics), and the schools design the degree programs with this buffer so students can wait to make a decision. Of course, the schools don't mind recieving four years of tuition for an education that could be completed in three.

But it's easy to blame the schools. In my experience, students don't really make career choices (like picking a major) by weighing the economic costs and benefits. Our current culture in college encourages students to take on massive amounts of debt regardless of their field. For many liberal arts degrees, this is probably a foolish financial decision. But for many college freshman, the apparent difficulty of a subject is considered thoroughly, while the job prospects of a career path are a secondary consideration.

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#14

Post by ryguytilidie »

holdenc wrote: post #12

For some people a college degree can lead to a crippling level of entitlement, and unwillingness to do the kind of work they hoped to escape by attending college. A college degree doesn't preclude someone from waiting tables, cleaning up messes and answering phones. Though many graduates seem to be confused about this. For unemployed colleges grads -- here's a rudimentary formula for success. Start a free website wit…

You know close to 50% of new grads are unemployed right? This is millions of kids a year who were told to get educated and now have no job waiting for them when they do. Acting like millions of kids should just get a job mopping floors and drop the entitlement is super ignorant and borders on dangerous.

I would put a lot of this blame on the fact that tax cuts for the rich that were supposed to "raise demand for workers" have just transferred money from consumers to corporations. We ignored that the lower and middle class constitute the VAST majority of consumption (which actually does create jobs, unlike some rich guy just having more money) and now the upper class has such an imbalance of wealth there are millions less people who can afford to buy their product.

Deciding that millions of new graduates aren't getting jobs because they are lazy is one of the more ignorant and lazy arguments I've ever seen.

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#15

Post by ryguytilidie »

veyron wrote: post #10

Education bubble is slowly deflating. Drawing analogies to housing bubble: People would "flip" their college education for a high-paying job Easy loans made it possible for everyone to participate Education prices inflated faster than core inflation, setting a higher hurdle for students There are fewer jobs at palatable salaries (various reasons) Now we have boatloads of students saddled with an education that they c…

The worst part is that just like in the housing bubble, where lenders went into strawberry fields and offered home loans for 300k houses in california to undocumented immigrants making 10/hr and then asked for everyone else to bail them out because they are shocked the person wasn't able to afford the loan.

Same thing applies here. You recruit a bunch of people who have no business being at college and certainly can't afford it, convince them that they NEED college and should take on student loans, they struggle, graduate and have no real marketable skills. Bank that made the loan hassles the student and when millions can't pay them back, I'm guessing we have another bailout on our hands. Glad we learn our lesson last time!

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#16

Post by fluidcruft »

sunsu wrote: post #3

Should note that it's "attended college" but not necessarily graduated, and that makes a huge difference.

Another demographic variable mentioned in the article is that the older end of the unemployed cohort had much lower rates of "attended college" and rises are expected as they age leave the workforce. At first my concern seeing that chart was "OMG why didn't anyone see this trend over the last 20 years and why hasn't it been part of the public discussion", but given at least that confound is not factored into the data display, my feeling is now that it's more of a meaningless fished graphic/statistic for effect/pageviews.

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#17

Post by adyus »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #14
holdenc wrote: post #12

For some people a college degree can lead to a crippling level of entitlement, and unwillingness to do the kind of work they hoped to escape by attending college. A college degree doesn't preclude someone from waiting tables, cleaning up messes and answering phones. Though many graduates seem to be confused about this. For unemployed colleges grads -- here's a rudimentary formula for success. Start a free website wit…

You know close to 50% of new grads are unemployed right? This is millions of kids a year who were told to get educated and now have no job waiting for them when they do. Acting like millions of kids should just get a job mopping floors and drop the entitlement is super ignorant and borders on dangerous. I would put a lot of this blame on the fact that tax cuts for the rich that were supposed to "raise demand for work…

I think the OP's comment held a seed of wisdom, even though it wasn't properly expressed.

The point I got from his post was that recently graduated and unemployed kids should stop waiting to be offered jobs that obviously don't exist anymore, and bring out the entrepreneurial spirit that made this country great (a long time ago).

The point is not to mop floors for $20, but to create a website (essentially a business) that solves somebody else's pain. That is the essential idea. Find a pain, fix it, charge enough to make a profit and move on to the next pain point that needs fixing.

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#19

Post by adyus »

wyclif wrote: post #4
mojaam wrote: post #2

Ugh, so depressing... go to college, rack up enormous amounts of debt, and hope to find a job so that you can start paying off the monthly minimums for the seemingly the rest of your life.

I know education is a common theme here on HN, and I always read articles like this. I still think education (esp. in US and UK) is ripe for entrepreneurial disruption, and I enjoy seeing what investors are doing in this space. The system is clearly broken, because incentives are out of proportion to costs.

Alas, entrepreneurial disruption in this field is made near impossible by the need for governmental oversight of all things related to education.

Until "official" degrees stop being an unspoken requirement when considering job applicants, startups such as Khan Academy will remain useful, but ultimately powerless to truly disrupt education.

Re: New Normal: Majority Of Unemployed Attended College

#20

Post by jchrisa »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #15
veyron wrote: post #10

Education bubble is slowly deflating. Drawing analogies to housing bubble: People would "flip" their college education for a high-paying job Easy loans made it possible for everyone to participate Education prices inflated faster than core inflation, setting a higher hurdle for students There are fewer jobs at palatable salaries (various reasons) Now we have boatloads of students saddled with an education that they c…

The worst part is that just like in the housing bubble, where lenders went into strawberry fields and offered home loans for 300k houses in california to undocumented immigrants making 10/hr and then asked for everyone else to bail them out because they are shocked the person wasn't able to afford the loan. Same thing applies here. You recruit a bunch of people who have no business being at college and certainly can'…

If I had student debt I'd be thrilled not to pay it back. This country needs a general debt strike or perhaps a jubilee.
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