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Why AWS Supports Valkey

aws.amazon.com

11–20 of 123 posts

Re: Why AWS Supports Valkey

#11
post #6
post #2

[flagged]

And redis doesn't want to pay contributors. Same gist, same shortsighted take on the whole matter. Based on the open source license redis had before, what did aws do wrong? They didn't even have to contribute back, yet they did. Investors of redis based their SaaS offering on open source and community work. Now that they achieved critical mass they want to reneg on the license.

There are multiple hosted Redis providers, not just Redis Labs and AWS.

I'm not sure why Redis OSS couldn't live on as open source product, while companies (including Redis Labs) offer managed Redis solutions.

Re: Why AWS Supports Valkey

#13
post #2

[flagged]

Yes, of course. That is a major reason why people use open source. And since AWS was a contributor to Redis, why it would be absurd for them to pay license fees on a project they helped build and maintain.

Yeah, they probably could/should.

It'd take a lot to get developer adoption and buy in to a separate product that AWS builds themselves, so they adopted Redis. Easy money. It's easier to piggyback on something that won while making lots of money from it and say "well, I helped..." if things chanbge. Then, they chastise the creators as bad people once the gravy train stops.

AWS benefited from hosted redis before contributing. It wasn't adopted out of benevolence. They're still doing it with Memcached, for what its worth.

Re: Why AWS Supports Valkey

#14

It's hard to quantify, but I think Amazon would have to be in the top contenders for most value gotten from open source software

Wouldn't that apply to all cloud providers, not just AWS? All of them are heavily based on open source software, from Linux, KVM/Xen, and K8s to MySQL/Postgres, Kafka, Cassandra, etc.?

Re: Why AWS Supports Valkey

#15

[flagged]

Ultimately it seems that everyone loses - the Redis project slowly fades, nobody can use its code on open-source projects any more, and AWS continues on unaffected by the change.

> nobody can use its code on open-source projects any more

This just shows you have no idea what sspl entails. It states you can use it for whatever you want, but if you want to provide the product as a service, you need to share all your infrastructure code for providing the service.

Its basically agpl with a carve-out for AWS and that is so valid because AWS are vultures. They probably make the most money in the world from postgres but aren't even in the top 3 contributors[0].

[0] - https://www.enterprisedb.com/blog/importance-of-giving-back-...

Re: Why AWS Supports Valkey

#16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course. That is a major reason why people use open source. And since AWS was a contributor to Redis, why it would be absurd for them to pay license fees on a project they helped build and maintain.

Yeah, they probably could/should. It'd take a lot to get developer adoption and buy in to a separate product that AWS builds themselves, so they adopted Redis. Easy money. It's easier to piggyback on something that won while making lots of money from it and say "well, I helped..." if things chanbge. Then, they chastise the creators as bad people once the gravy train stops. AWS benefited from hosted redis before contr…

The whole open source model is scratching each others back but your own just a little bit more. But you make it sound as if aws was hypocritical for contributing and at the same time making money with it. Well ehh, isn't that the whole deal?

Re: Why AWS Supports Valkey

#17

[flagged]

That's the anti-capitalist narrative where AWS is the root cause for a small heroic company called Redis to defend themselves against the evil capitalist thieves.

In reality, the vast majority of commits on Redis in recent history weren't coming from Redis the company (a VC funded entity looking to do an IPO) at all but from the collective users of Redis. Which include such small companies as Amazon, Google, Microsoft, etc. many of whom have a long history of having offered Redis as part of their cloud platforms. Redis was benefiting enormously from these contributions. The notion that VCs somehow own this codebase and are the victim of other public companies abusing their intellectual property is nonsensical.

They unilaterally created a fork of the up until then open source code base that all these companies have been contributing to. This is completely legal under the BSD license and they are well within their rights to do so. Just like every other user of Redis. Including the before mentioned large software companies. But unlike Redis, they continue to contribute to the open source code base and share the code. It's Redis that has turned all greedy and capitalist here, not AWS. Redis never paid AWS for their contributions. Or Google. Or Microsoft. That's how open source works.

This developer community is of course continuing to work on the various forks that they already had (for the purpose of developing and contributing back changes) and will continue to share code with each other. Why would they stop doing that? Nominally, Valkey, which has been created under the Linux Foundation seems to be emerging as the dominant shared fork used for that. AWS is merely announcing that they indeed plan to rally behind that one.

It's logical, sensible, and completely consistent with what they have been doing for many years, which is to offer a Redis/Valkey based service to their users and collaborate with other users and companies on the open source code base. I expect more announcements from the vast majority of companies using redis in the next weeks. The only thing that changed is that Redis the company cut themselves loose from that ecosystem. Most of the code and business was never theirs. They owned neither the copyright nor the moral rights to any of that.

Re: Why AWS Supports Valkey

#18
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And redis doesn't want to pay contributors. Same gist, same shortsighted take on the whole matter. Based on the open source license redis had before, what did aws do wrong? They didn't even have to contribute back, yet they did. Investors of redis based their SaaS offering on open source and community work. Now that they achieved critical mass they want to reneg on the license.

There are multiple hosted Redis providers, not just Redis Labs and AWS. I'm not sure why Redis OSS couldn't live on as open source product, while companies (including Redis Labs) offer managed Redis solutions.

It's nearly impossible to compete with AWS on hosting. People host their stuff on AWS, it's so much easier to take the fully integrated solutions of AWS than a third party vendor that they have realistically no chance of competing. That plus the fact that a competitor wanting to sell to AWS customers would have to host their own offering on AWS for bandwidth cost and latency reasons, and being forced to pay a competitor to play is always a sign that unfair competition is going on.

The rule of thumb is that you should be either be a platform or participate in the competition on that platform but never do both (applies to App Store, Amazon Marketplace, etc etc)

Re: Why AWS Supports Valkey

#19

[flagged]

The only brainwashing is by companies who built their customer base and reputation on open source convincing anyone that changing the rules is a fair thing to do to the community that made them successful. The idea that changing the Redis license will keep people from moving to AWS’s hosted version is sadly delusional. But bailing on open source entirely does ensure that many folks will no longer give Redis a second glance.

What happened here is not that AWS and Valkey forked Redis. Rather, Redis forked itself into a closed system and Valkey et al are picking up the torch of the open source project.

Re: Why AWS Supports Valkey

#20
post #16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they probably could/should. It'd take a lot to get developer adoption and buy in to a separate product that AWS builds themselves, so they adopted Redis. Easy money. It's easier to piggyback on something that won while making lots of money from it and say "well, I helped..." if things chanbge. Then, they chastise the creators as bad people once the gravy train stops. AWS benefited from hosted redis before contr…

The whole open source model is scratching each others back but your own just a little bit more. But you make it sound as if aws was hypocritical for contributing and at the same time making money with it. Well ehh, isn't that the whole deal?

No, not given the people who created Redis, built distribution, made it a standard didn’t get paid. Open source isn’t about letting someone else gain from your work. It’s about openness. That’s why it’s of course in AWS’ benefit to support a fork. They claim to have helped the project therefore should be trusted going forward, despite latching onto it after the work was done to gain adoption. That’s fairly controlling and manipulative.
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