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Clojure's machine learning ecosystem

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Re: Clojure's machine learning ecosystem

#11

Post by cess11 »

kleiba wrote: post #2

I remember there used to be so much excitement about Clojure - it certainly was the "tech du jour" for a long while, also on the HN front page. It was the "...in Rust" of its day. But is it just me or has it gotten awfully quiet around Clojure? I mean, it is of course expected that no novelty can stay in the lime light forever. But what has become of all of the excitement? My impression is that Clojure failed to live…

Aren't they having problems with new Java versions? Heard someone say something along those lines a while ago, or I misunderstood.

It also seems Rich Hickey kind of stopped doing interesting talks, and some big bank bought into it and no one really likes banks.

Re: Clojure's machine learning ecosystem

#12

Post by BaculumMeumEst »

For web server stuff, I still think Clojure is extremely solid. But I’ve come to really prefer Racket for general purpose programming.

I really like the package manager, I like that there’s an IDE with a visual step debugger (seriously, why do almost no lisp people value this?), that it’s multi paradigm, and that the language continues to improve and evolve.

Clojure just has so many finicky or annoying things about it. The design of deps.edn/clojure CLI and the lack of user friendly tooling is forever frustrating. Laziness and its implications being invisibly core to the language is annoying as well.

Re: Clojure's machine learning ecosystem

#13

Post by j13n »

It’s great to see reports of the excellent work Daniel Slutsky and others are doing to make data science more straightforward for everyone.

I'm grateful that I get to benefit from these community efforts.

Re: Clojure's machine learning ecosystem

#14

Post by bachmeier »

nextos wrote: post #4
kleiba wrote: post #2

I remember there used to be so much excitement about Clojure - it certainly was the "tech du jour" for a long while, also on the HN front page. It was the "...in Rust" of its day. But is it just me or has it gotten awfully quiet around Clojure? I mean, it is of course expected that no novelty can stay in the lime light forever. But what has become of all of the excitement? My impression is that Clojure failed to live…

I would not say it is such a small niche. There are job openings here and there. It is much easier to find a Clojure job than a F# or a Haskell job in my experience. This may be of course different depending on your location. The problem is that an entire ecosystem is more than just a new language. Clojure has some really interesting libraries, but the rest relies on Java. It is a good ecosystem nonetheless. Julia is…

> at some point circa 2010, it looked like Clojure could revive Lisp-Stat with Incanter

I think there was hope that would happen, but Incanter simply didn't have the functionality or documentation needed to become a player in that space in 2010. It was a doomed effort because of the (intentional) difficulty of native interoperability on the JVM. They'd have had to rewrite tens of millions of lines of code to realize their goals.

Re: Clojure's machine learning ecosystem

#15

Post by yayitswei »

cess11 wrote: post #11
kleiba wrote: post #2

I remember there used to be so much excitement about Clojure - it certainly was the "tech du jour" for a long while, also on the HN front page. It was the "...in Rust" of its day. But is it just me or has it gotten awfully quiet around Clojure? I mean, it is of course expected that no novelty can stay in the lime light forever. But what has become of all of the excitement? My impression is that Clojure failed to live…

Aren't they having problems with new Java versions? Heard someone say something along those lines a while ago, or I misunderstood. It also seems Rich Hickey kind of stopped doing interesting talks, and some big bank bought into it and no one really likes banks.

Interesting is subjective, but Rich gave a talk at the most recent Clojure Conj.

Re: Clojure's machine learning ecosystem

#16

Post by lgrapenthin »

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #12

For web server stuff, I still think Clojure is extremely solid. But I’ve come to really prefer Racket for general purpose programming. I really like the package manager, I like that there’s an IDE with a visual step debugger (seriously, why do almost no lisp people value this?), that it’s multi paradigm, and that the language continues to improve and evolve. Clojure just has so many finicky or annoying things about i…

Most Clojure devs I know already have lots of experience and can debug faster in their head, with the occasional help of printing a value. But check out this cool Clojure debugger, it even has time travel https://www.flow-storm.org/

We also have a debugger in Emacs/CIDER.

Your other complaints read like you haven't dug really far, or they are outdated.

Re: Clojure's machine learning ecosystem

#17

Post by dustingetz »

yawn wrote: post #9
synthc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the language has indeed reached a stable point and found its niche, which is small, but there are certainly domains where Clojure is the best fit. The ideas behind Clojure (functional, immutable datastructures, homoiconic syntax, focus on simplicity, JVM interop) still stand strong IMO. There are still some exciting projects done in Clojure: Electric Clojure and Rama come to mind.

> but there are certainly domains where Clojure is the best fit Honest question: what domains?

clojure is everywhere in fintech - nubank, guaranteed rate, kroo bank, griffin, pennymac, two sigma, dividend finance, treasury prime, gravie. Other big areas are healthcare and midmarket adtech. And of course startups outside of SF/NYC with smaller seed rounds looking for tech advantage - midwest USA, Europe/UK, Latin america

The further you get from silicon valley the more clojure you see — anyone with a network at FANG spent the last 10 years trying to break in and get that huge salary, which means conforming to the recruiting process, i.e. spending your time off grinding leetcode instead of learning new PLs

Re: Clojure's machine learning ecosystem

#18

Post by lgrapenthin »

cess11 wrote: post #11
kleiba wrote: post #2

I remember there used to be so much excitement about Clojure - it certainly was the "tech du jour" for a long while, also on the HN front page. It was the "...in Rust" of its day. But is it just me or has it gotten awfully quiet around Clojure? I mean, it is of course expected that no novelty can stay in the lime light forever. But what has become of all of the excitement? My impression is that Clojure failed to live…

Aren't they having problems with new Java versions? Heard someone say something along those lines a while ago, or I misunderstood. It also seems Rich Hickey kind of stopped doing interesting talks, and some big bank bought into it and no one really likes banks.

None of this is true.

Re: Clojure's machine learning ecosystem

#20

Post by bmitc »

j13n wrote: post #13

It’s great to see reports of the excellent work Daniel Slutsky and others are doing to make data science more straightforward for everyone. I'm grateful that I get to benefit from these community efforts.

Good luck getting academics to adopt anything they don't know about, and all they know about is Python.
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