Creating the Windows 8 user experience • Hacker News Board

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#11

Post by glhaynes » Fri, May 18, 2012, 9:20 PM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #8

glhaynes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft products often annoy me, but "too much memory consumption" is pretty low on the list. Does Windows 7 really demand a substantially higher amount of memory than similarly-capable competing systems in most categories? (Linux running FVWM isn't comparable for most categories.) I agree that Windows 8 is so far rather unconvincing with regard to providing a realistically strong competitor to the iPad in market t…

"too much memory consumption" is pretty low on the list. The reason it isn't high on the list is because they already tackled that for Win7. You may not remember, but it was a growing problem before 7. They aren't saying here that they need to reduce memory consumption further; they are saying that they will do the same thing with battery life for Win8, that they did with memory for Win7.

I think you've misunderstood my point which was that Microsoft engineers are very capable of reducing memory usage if charged to do so (and, as you say, history bears this out) and that I would expect them to likewise be able to reduce power usage [within the constraints provided by environment and hardware requirements].

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#12

Post by drivebyacct2 » Fri, May 18, 2012, 9:21 PM UTC

silverbax88 wrote: post #2

I see this as nothing less than a massive misstep by Microsoft. Trying to create a primary OS based on mobile devices is a great way to give market share to the companies that already own those spaces while giving up the one that you own. Microsoft even says that "some people" still need desktop PC's, then names 'video editors, financial analysts, scientists, gamers, PC enthusiasts…'...so everyone who needs to actual…

Seeing as Windows 8 still includes full desktop mode, exactly how does any of this "abandon core revenue" logic make any sense?

I get it, despite being in the tech world, geek-types remain incredibly resitive to change, but I'm tired of every tiny change that Google or Microsoft makes turning into "they're jumping the shark".

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#13

Post by metrop0219 » Fri, May 18, 2012, 9:24 PM UTC

I think that people here are too pessimistic in general about Windows 8.

Look at the current trends in computing. They're using those trends to influence this release. And I think that a lot of the design decisions (especially ones like "content over chrome" are really damn good).

It's going to be super interesting to see how this thing is received by non-techy people come the holiday season.

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#14

Post by metrop0219 » Fri, May 18, 2012, 9:25 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #4

Where Microsoft used to primarily focus on reducing memory consumption, now we are also laser-focused on improving battery life while still delivering a fast and fluid user experience. If Microsoft's previos focus on reducing memory consumption produced prior versions of windows, their new focus on increasing battery life should produce Windows 8 tablets that last a half an hour, tops. While I'm at it, in general, fu…

In what way are they screwing developers? I feel that the three avenues for writing apps (C#/xaml, c++, and html5/js) are actually pretty good for us.

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#15

Post by metrop0219 » Fri, May 18, 2012, 9:27 PM UTC

glhaynes wrote: post #11

sliverstorm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"too much memory consumption" is pretty low on the list. The reason it isn't high on the list is because they already tackled that for Win7. You may not remember, but it was a growing problem before 7. They aren't saying here that they need to reduce memory consumption further; they are saying that they will do the same thing with battery life for Win8, that they did with memory for Win7.

I think you've misunderstood my point which was that Microsoft engineers are very capable of reducing memory usage if charged to do so (and, as you say, history bears this out) and that I would expect them to likewise be able to reduce power usage [within the constraints provided by environment and hardware requirements].

Memory is cheap. There's probably better things to focus on then squeezing more bits out of the memory usage.

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#16

Post by courage » Fri, May 18, 2012, 9:47 PM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #3

silverbax88 wrote: post #2

I see this as nothing less than a massive misstep by Microsoft. Trying to create a primary OS based on mobile devices is a great way to give market share to the companies that already own those spaces while giving up the one that you own. Microsoft even says that "some people" still need desktop PC's, then names 'video editors, financial analysts, scientists, gamers, PC enthusiasts…'...so everyone who needs to actual…

So effectively, Microsoft wants to create an OS that abandons their core revenue base while going after one that has rejected them repeatedly. Exactly. There may be some precedent for a successful OS built on a bifurcated strategy like what MS has outlined for Windows 8, but at 43, I'm not old enough to remember it.

I think DOS/Windows is a pretty good analog, and it was very successful.

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#17

Post by rbanffy » Fri, May 18, 2012, 9:49 PM UTC

The fact is almost every HP, Acer, Dell and Toshiba will come with it pre-installed. There is basically no way it will be labeled a failure, even if nobody uses it.

Remember Windows Vista was considered a great success (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2130290,00.asp).

When you buy a generic x86 computer (any non-Apple x86, that is) you have 3 choices of OS: you can leave whatever came on the machine (most likely Windows), you can install a previous version of Windows you already had floating around or you can install any of the fine *nix-based OSs that will run on it. Most people opt for #1, some resent change (or just dislike what came with the machine) and opt for #2 and a tiny minority goes with #3 (me included).

That means I am part of Vista's and 7's success stories - I bought computers with them installed and never bothered to return the licenses, although I never used either. From a sales perspective, I'm a happy Windows user.

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#18

Post by rbanffy » Fri, May 18, 2012, 9:50 PM UTC

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #12

silverbax88 wrote: post #2

I see this as nothing less than a massive misstep by Microsoft. Trying to create a primary OS based on mobile devices is a great way to give market share to the companies that already own those spaces while giving up the one that you own. Microsoft even says that "some people" still need desktop PC's, then names 'video editors, financial analysts, scientists, gamers, PC enthusiasts…'...so everyone who needs to actual…

Seeing as Windows 8 still includes full desktop mode, exactly how does any of this "abandon core revenue" logic make any sense? I get it, despite being in the tech world, geek-types remain incredibly resitive to change, but I'm tired of every tiny change that Google or Microsoft makes turning into "they're jumping the shark".

To be fair, people said the same about Gnome 3 and Unity and both work very well...

But... If you are not a "geek-type", what are you doing on "Hacker News"?

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#19

Post by rbanffy » Fri, May 18, 2012, 9:53 PM UTC

courage wrote: post #16

CamperBob2 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So effectively, Microsoft wants to create an OS that abandons their core revenue base while going after one that has rejected them repeatedly. Exactly. There may be some precedent for a successful OS built on a bifurcated strategy like what MS has outlined for Windows 8, but at 43, I'm not old enough to remember it.

I think DOS/Windows is a pretty good analog, and it was very successful.

Makes sense. The first 3 versions of Windows ran on top of DOS. This first version of Metro runs "on top" of a classic Windows desktop... And both were responses to products Apple launched (Lisa/Macintosh and the iPad). What Microsoft is doing is using Windows as the platform that introduces Windows+1 much like it did with DOS.

Re: Creating the Windows 8 user experience

#20

Post by rbanffy » Fri, May 18, 2012, 9:55 PM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #8

glhaynes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft products often annoy me, but "too much memory consumption" is pretty low on the list. Does Windows 7 really demand a substantially higher amount of memory than similarly-capable competing systems in most categories? (Linux running FVWM isn't comparable for most categories.) I agree that Windows 8 is so far rather unconvincing with regard to providing a realistically strong competitor to the iPad in market t…

"too much memory consumption" is pretty low on the list. The reason it isn't high on the list is because they already tackled that for Win7. You may not remember, but it was a growing problem before 7. They aren't saying here that they need to reduce memory consumption further; they are saying that they will do the same thing with battery life for Win8, that they did with memory for Win7.

> The reason it isn't high on the list is because they already tackled that for Win7

It's not tweaking memory management that solved the problem - it's that our computers started coming with 4 gigabytes of RAM.