The submission title is editorialized (easy karma bait), the tweet doesn't say anything like that, not even mentioning xz or the word trust. And also it's an entirely different type of security incident. You can make the first sentence of the tweet fit the HN submission word limit "CISA and review board torches Microsoft response about the 2023 compromise"
Agreed, and flagged. I'm not sure why there's a sudden surge of xz ragebait submissions.
The xz attack may be bad, but trusting Microsoft certs is worse
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Re: The xz attack may be bad, but trusting Microsoft certs is worse
#12Downvote me all you want, but take your pick: Either be Stallman-esque in openness of design and intent (but not distribution) at risk of heavy end-product sales tax, or your product must be signed off by a software PE in order for you to legally charge money in any way for it or its use (or even pester for donations). Trust me, fall on the Stallman sword, it's smaller.
See post history for a better write-up of what I mean by proprientary-tax and the national security threats of not being able to understand and replace all your firmwares.
Re: The xz attack may be bad, but trusting Microsoft certs is worse
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, they’re entirely different classes of failure (from a security pov, not personal failing, esp nothing the old xz maintainer did). Also the only reason the xz attack isn’t overwhelmingly worse than the MS attack is because it was caught (by an MS person as well I think?) before it was deployed.
It was caught by a person on MS payroll, that's true, but it didn't get caught by any security processes institutionalized by Microsoft. So the credit goes to Andres Freund, who was working off-the-clock (according to The Verge) not to Microsoft.
Re: The xz attack may be bad, but trusting Microsoft certs is worse
#14The CISA report is definitely worth a read and so is questioning Microsoft's security posture. Comparing the incident to the xz attack doesn't make a whole lot of sense though.
Re: The xz attack may be bad, but trusting Microsoft certs is worse
#15The submission title is editorialized (easy karma bait), the tweet doesn't say anything like that, not even mentioning xz or the word trust. And also it's an entirely different type of security incident. You can make the first sentence of the tweet fit the HN submission word limit "CISA and review board torches Microsoft response about the 2023 compromise"
Submitters: If you want to say what you think is important about an article, that's fine, but do it by adding a comment to the thread. Then your view will be on a level playing field with everyone else's: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
Re: The xz attack may be bad, but trusting Microsoft certs is worse
#16The submission title is editorialized (easy karma bait), the tweet doesn't say anything like that, not even mentioning xz or the word trust. And also it's an entirely different type of security incident. You can make the first sentence of the tweet fit the HN submission word limit "CISA and review board torches Microsoft response about the 2023 compromise"
Yes, the submitted title broke the site guidelines badly. From https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html : " Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize. " Submitters: If you want to say what you think is important about an article, that's fine, but do it by adding a comment to the thread. Then your view will be on a level playing field with everyone else's: https://h…
Re: The xz attack may be bad, but trusting Microsoft certs is worse
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, the submitted title broke the site guidelines badly. From https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html : " Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize. " Submitters: If you want to say what you think is important about an article, that's fine, but do it by adding a comment to the thread. Then your view will be on a level playing field with everyone else's: https://h…
It's interesting article though, isn't there a way to get it to reflect that instead of flagging it into the void?
Re: The xz attack may be bad, but trusting Microsoft certs is worse
#18It's possible to have both things be true at once. XZ shows that the FOSS ecosystem is uniquely vulnerable and the Storm-0558 and Midnight Blizzard attacks show that cloud security and proprietary software "security through obscurity" is still as flawed as it has always been.
That said, I find significant deficiencies in yesterday's report. The panel of stakeholders that were consulted includes all of Microsoft's cloud competitors, a threat intelligence firm owned by one, and Palo Alto Networks - which has had significant breaches of its own. I don't like how Microsoft has enterprise environments by the short hairs on the Windows environment and leverages that to push its SaaS offerings (especially in security). I think it's ridiculous that the technical indicators for the initial compromise were paywalled behind logs that the US government had to pressure them to make open for everyone. That said, their threat landscape is not at all similar to PAN and Google Cloud's. The entire federal government works on Microsoft's stack, especially for Office and Windows. State-sponsored hackers will dedicate more resources to compromising Microsoft than any of their peers. AWS has GovCloud, which is the next closest thing that an adversary may want, but the intelligence value of getting the Secratary of ___'s email vs. an S3 bucket or an EC2 instance isn't comparable.
It's clear from their blog posts and press releases that they themselves have no idea what caused the loss of the MSA key. The lack of logging to confirm their preferred theory is bad. Throwing it out as if they had evidence of it and then posting a silent update to their blog post last month admitting they had no clue is worse. The flaw in their IAM that allowed a key from 2016 to sign enterprise tokens is an oversight that a company with the trust Microsoft has shouldn't allow.
The CSRB could have made a great report on the above and let the facts speak for themselves. Instead, the pointed jabs at MSFT - especially during the Findings section where they spend several pages showing Microsoft's failings and then follow with how their cloud platforms happen to do so much better - risk the effort landing as a smear campaign.
Re: The xz attack may be bad, but trusting Microsoft certs is worse
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, they’re entirely different classes of failure (from a security pov, not personal failing, esp nothing the old xz maintainer did). Also the only reason the xz attack isn’t overwhelmingly worse than the MS attack is because it was caught (by an MS person as well I think?) before it was deployed.
It was caught by a person on MS payroll, that's true, but it didn't get caught by any security processes institutionalized by Microsoft. So the credit goes to Andres Freund, who was working off-the-clock (according to The Verge) not to Microsoft.
Re: The xz attack may be bad, but trusting Microsoft certs is worse
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was caught by a person on MS payroll, that's true, but it didn't get caught by any security processes institutionalized by Microsoft. So the credit goes to Andres Freund, who was working off-the-clock (according to The Verge) not to Microsoft.
I don't know if off the clock accurate. My job is to work on postgres, I was helping out with the development of a feature (avoid a perf regression in a degenerate case, in a patch improving much more common cases). OTOH, I think it was late at night at that point. What's on/off the clock for an OSS dev...
What was the moment like, when you realized you have stumbled upon a backdoor? I mean, it is riveting just to read the various reports of this backdoor!