LiveView Is Best with Svelte • Hacker News Board

Re: LiveView Is Best with Svelte

#11

Post by fearthetelomere » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:28 PM UTC

This looks super promising...

I very much relate to the dropdown example, and I've found that complicated UX patterns can be extremely awkward to implement and maintain in LV.

One example from my experience that was prickly to implement in LV was graying out a chat message you sent if it didn't get acked or persisted by the channel/server for any reason.

Can't wait to try this out in my next project!

Re: LiveView Is Best with Svelte

#12

Post by nvegater » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:30 PM UTC

I honestly don’t understand how’s this different from react server components with nextjs but with less features? It seems like the same thing but with an even clearer border between server/client components and therefore missing all the optimizations (like streaming). Like islands architecture but made out of different technologies, is my understanding correct ? I would appreciate some feedback :)

Re: LiveView Is Best with Svelte

#13

Post by pjmlp » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:31 PM UTC

bogwog wrote: post #5

So instead of managing state on the client, you manage state on the client and the server? That doesn't seem like an improvement, even if it saves you from having to build yet another API.

It is just a new generation rediscovering ColdFusion, Web Forms, JSF, PHP, Spring, Rails...

Re: LiveView Is Best with Svelte

#14

Post by bcardarella » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:32 PM UTC

submain wrote: post #8

I am not familiar with LiveView, so I'm curious. Looks like it processes UI actions server side. So, are all client interactions sent through the websocket? I remember years/decades ago we used to do that with ASP.NET, where every single component interaction was handled by the server. How is this different / better?

I never used ASP.net so I cannot offer a comparison about what is "better" but your assumption is correct that diffs are through a WS and merged client-side. What this has resulted in is actual order of magnitude of implementation time reduction over the crazier SPA complexity available today. Less time to build, less cost to the company, less bugs in the long run, and a single place to manage and reason about state. It's a win.

Re: LiveView Is Best with Svelte

#15

Post by klabb3 » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:34 PM UTC

bogwog wrote: post #5

So instead of managing state on the client, you manage state on the client and the server? That doesn't seem like an improvement, even if it saves you from having to build yet another API.

Are you comparing with PWAs? Or what’s the baseline? Because with PWAs you have both too. State is accessed from the client with requests and you have to manage caching and stale state as well, to ensure performance and not drifting out of sync across components, no? Last I checked out a modern “performant” graphql stack – it was horrifyingly complex and full of knobs.

Re: LiveView Is Best with Svelte

#16

Post by bcardarella » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:35 PM UTC

nvegater wrote: post #12

I honestly don’t understand how’s this different from react server components with nextjs but with less features? It seems like the same thing but with an even clearer border between server/client components and therefore missing all the optimizations (like streaming). Like islands architecture but made out of different technologies, is my understanding correct ? I would appreciate some feedback :)

LiveView has streaming. I would argue that if you're stuck in the React way of thinking about application design then it's not worth trying to sell you on what LiveView is doing. But there are multiple case studies out there showing that it results in far less build times than React for no compromise on user experience.

Re: LiveView Is Best with Svelte

#17

Post by atonse » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:38 PM UTC

I've wanted something like this for Vue/React too with LiveView, because then you get access to this massive ecosystem of great components to put in your phoenix apps while still utilizing LiveView. (the LiveView component ecosystem is tiny).

So maybe this can be the start of a general bridge that can bridge LV with React or Vue components too? And make it easy to put these in a page and interact with LV events, etc.

Re: LiveView Is Best with Svelte

#18

Post by wturner » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:38 PM UTC

POiNTx wrote: post #3

I created LiveSvelte, let me know if you have any questions :)

Is there any reason you can think of to still use JS Hooks if using LiveSvelte?

Re: LiveView Is Best with Svelte

#19

Post by nmk » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:40 PM UTC

klabb3 wrote: post #10

Generally speaking this is the model I’ve always been wanted to build apps in. Event oriented, bidirectional realtime updates with server, ordered events, local and remote state... I didn’t know about LiveView and never used erlang-family languages, but definitely they’re onto something. The traditional request-response model is many times causing a lot of subtle problems with consistency and staleness. A wishful (pr…

> I hope the next decade will be oriented around integrating stateful message-oriented (reactive?) programming into the mainstream full stack

Also known as MVC before Rails decided to redefine the term.

Re: LiveView Is Best with Svelte

#20

Post by yurishimo » Wed, Apr 03, 2024, 2:41 PM UTC

atonse wrote: post #17

I've wanted something like this for Vue/React too with LiveView, because then you get access to this massive ecosystem of great components to put in your phoenix apps while still utilizing LiveView. (the LiveView component ecosystem is tiny). So maybe this can be the start of a general bridge that can bridge LV with React or Vue components too? And make it easy to put these in a page and interact with LV events, etc.

There is an adapter already for Inertia.js and Phoenix. https://github.com/devato/inertia_phoenix