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Developing a Modern Full-Stack Application: Choosing the Right Tech Stack

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Re: Developing a Modern Full-Stack Application: Choosing the Right Tech Stack

#11

Post by kyruzic »

throwaway60330 wrote: post #8
kyruzic wrote: post #2

Typescript (nodejs) backends are not performant, and your ultra modern stack is going to just cause you issues going forward if you need to scale. Prisma is really bad too, slow queries and no flexibility. If you ever need to do any sort of complex query you will just have to write sql anyway. And typescript is only sort of static typing. These technologies are great for prototyping and building a v1 release to see i…

Node.js backend performance is comparable to Java. Perhaps you had bad developers - trust me, if they screwed it up so bad they wouldn't be able to make your Java backend any faster, and probably couldn't get Go or Rust to work at all.

Go is perhaps the simplest language to learn there is. It's almost impossible to not get it to work because it has so few things you can actually do.

And nodejs only preforms well in hello world benchmarks, real world applications are nothing like that. Once you start having to manipulate large arrays or do any large amount of math nodejs preformance goes into the dumpster.

Re: Developing a Modern Full-Stack Application: Choosing the Right Tech Stack

#13

Post by simonw »

"In many ways, I think I picked a great stack to move quickly and ship things. However, considering all the time spent debugging some of issues that stemmed from using more cutting edge infra providers, next time I'll more carefully consider setting up parts of my infra with a more traditional solution like AWS."

That right there is the rationale behind the "Choose Boring Technology" movement: https://boringtechnology.club/

Re: Developing a Modern Full-Stack Application: Choosing the Right Tech Stack

#14

Post by kyruzic »

kossTKR wrote: post #10
kyruzic wrote: post #2

Typescript (nodejs) backends are not performant, and your ultra modern stack is going to just cause you issues going forward if you need to scale. Prisma is really bad too, slow queries and no flexibility. If you ever need to do any sort of complex query you will just have to write sql anyway. And typescript is only sort of static typing. These technologies are great for prototyping and building a v1 release to see i…

This sounds weird to me. What kind of scale / traffic did you have? Must be incredible read write heavy with millions of users? I'm saying this because i myself have, and lots i know, have launched production sites with 100s of thousands of users on ready-made stacks like, Laravel, Rails, Flask (Php, Ruby, Python). But it's my impression that these fall short on millions of users and enormous concurrent traffic, but…

That's why you shouldn't use slow backend technologies in the first place because you get to the point where you need preformance and it's impossible because your limited by extremely slow runtime you chose initially because it was flashy (not even easier to developer for) when you could have just chosen something better from the start.

Simple crud apps can get by fine with those technologies, but in the future I'd still never use it because you're leaving huge amounts of performance gains on the table for virtually no benefit. I don't buy the argument that javascript is just easier to develop for because it's simply not. The js ecosystem is a disaster.

Re: Developing a Modern Full-Stack Application: Choosing the Right Tech Stack

#15

Post by CuriouslyC »

Definitely would reach for remix before next, and I would go with a big cloud provider container app solution such as Azure container apps (if azure was better) or Google Cloud Run (good, but do you trust google?) before Vercel.

Personally I think ORMs are mostly bad and Prisma is more of the same. Zapatos at least gives you typed SQL results without a lot of overhead.

Re: Developing a Modern Full-Stack Application: Choosing the Right Tech Stack

#16

Post by zeroCalories »

kyruzic wrote: post #2

Typescript (nodejs) backends are not performant, and your ultra modern stack is going to just cause you issues going forward if you need to scale. Prisma is really bad too, slow queries and no flexibility. If you ever need to do any sort of complex query you will just have to write sql anyway. And typescript is only sort of static typing. These technologies are great for prototyping and building a v1 release to see i…

Many companies are not throttled by server language performance. Performance in many cases will depend on your database, geolocation, and caching techniques over nodejs vs go. Nothing wrong with prioritizing developer experience.

Re: Developing a Modern Full-Stack Application: Choosing the Right Tech Stack

#17

Post by throwup238 »

simonw wrote: post #13

"In many ways, I think I picked a great stack to move quickly and ship things. However, considering all the time spent debugging some of issues that stemmed from using more cutting edge infra providers, next time I'll more carefully consider setting up parts of my infra with a more traditional solution like AWS." That right there is the rationale behind the "Choose Boring Technology" movement: https://boringtechnolog…

I can't believe AWS is considered boring technology now.

I don't know whether to feel old or cry on my dedicated servers.

Re: Developing a Modern Full-Stack Application: Choosing the Right Tech Stack

#18

Post by kyruzic »

willsmith72 wrote: post #7
kyruzic wrote: post #2

Typescript (nodejs) backends are not performant, and your ultra modern stack is going to just cause you issues going forward if you need to scale. Prisma is really bad too, slow queries and no flexibility. If you ever need to do any sort of complex query you will just have to write sql anyway. And typescript is only sort of static typing. These technologies are great for prototyping and building a v1 release to see i…

i don't agree at all. nodejs backends are as performant as you build them. the whole premise of node was async io, so if you're doing a bunch of blocking stuff then yeah, you're going to have issues. otherwise there's nothing innately non-performant about the platform. it's impossible to debate more without going into details on your performance issues. typical backend architecture for any platform these days is the…

Nodejs backends are not "as performant as you build them" nodejs is slow! This is an undeniable fact. If you ever have to do anything computationally intensive, which every backend at some point will nodejs will become the bottleneck.

Re: Developing a Modern Full-Stack Application: Choosing the Right Tech Stack

#19

Post by kyruzic »

zeroCalories wrote: post #16
kyruzic wrote: post #2

Typescript (nodejs) backends are not performant, and your ultra modern stack is going to just cause you issues going forward if you need to scale. Prisma is really bad too, slow queries and no flexibility. If you ever need to do any sort of complex query you will just have to write sql anyway. And typescript is only sort of static typing. These technologies are great for prototyping and building a v1 release to see i…

Many companies are not throttled by server language performance. Performance in many cases will depend on your database, geolocation, and caching techniques over nodejs vs go. Nothing wrong with prioritizing developer experience.

I do agree with this, but I'd argue the developer experience of nodejs with Typescript is far worse than that of rust/go
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