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AI used well can restore middle class jobs [pdf]

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Re: AI used well can restore middle class jobs [pdf]

#11

Post by asdff »

teekert wrote: post #6
asdff wrote: post #4

The problem with the concept of a middle class job (one where you can comfortably afford living, fun, saving, etc I think is most people's interpretations), is that it represents an unstable equilibrium state. Incentives of most businesses are the opposite of someone in the middle class. Businesses don't think in terms how they can take so little such as to perpetuate some idyllic lifestyle unimpinged, they think in…

[flagged]

You don't have to tell me that. You have to just out compete over a century of very successful anti union propaganda to get through to the labor in this country. Not to mention how the working class is so fractured on identity politics. No easy thing to go up against, especially when so many groups profit off the status quo as it is and will fight you every step of the way.

Re: AI used well can restore middle class jobs [pdf]

#12

Post by sideshowb »

asdff wrote: post #4

The problem with the concept of a middle class job (one where you can comfortably afford living, fun, saving, etc I think is most people's interpretations), is that it represents an unstable equilibrium state. Incentives of most businesses are the opposite of someone in the middle class. Businesses don't think in terms how they can take so little such as to perpetuate some idyllic lifestyle unimpinged, they think in…

I'd like to see that math expanded because I'm not sure I follow. Just because some (even if all) companies want to bleed the world dry, they aren't all colluding. If Tesco put up their prices it's not going to derail my middle class lifestyle, I'll just go shop at lidl instead. If my employer cuts pay in real terms then that's certainly a tougher situation which is why we have a union, but though it may be hassle, middle class people have been known to change jobs.

Re: AI used well can restore middle class jobs [pdf]

#14

Post by abdullahkhalids »

asdff wrote: post #4

The problem with the concept of a middle class job (one where you can comfortably afford living, fun, saving, etc I think is most people's interpretations), is that it represents an unstable equilibrium state. Incentives of most businesses are the opposite of someone in the middle class. Businesses don't think in terms how they can take so little such as to perpetuate some idyllic lifestyle unimpinged, they think in…

Institute law that give employees greater than 50% shares of any large company they were work for. So, the capitalist class can't actually extract wealth away from the worker class.

Re: AI used well can restore middle class jobs [pdf]

#15

Post by xyst »

If AI truly does take over most jobs of today (low to mid tier level SWEs replaced with a couple of “prompt engineers”). I would be okay, but only if there were proper support pillars in place.

Healthcare should be free for all. UBI. And of course continued education provided to train workforce into something else.

Re: AI used well can restore middle class jobs [pdf]

#16

Post by lenerdenator »

gcheong wrote: post #13

Productivity has been gaining for years while the number of working hours per week have remained the same and wages have stagnated or even declined. Why should I believe more productivity on the lower end will restore the middle class?

Because if you do believe this, Marc Andreessen's personal net worth increases by the annual economic output of a rural Midwestern county in the next week.

You're right to be skeptical. Don't believe them. Demand a greater slice of the created value for yourself, and until you get it (and it manages to have a positive impact on your finances - see inflation), tell these people to shove their whitepapers where the sun doesn't shine.

Re: AI used well can restore middle class jobs [pdf]

#17

Post by chrishare »

xyst wrote: post #15

If AI truly does take over most jobs of today (low to mid tier level SWEs replaced with a couple of “prompt engineers”). I would be okay, but only if there were proper support pillars in place. Healthcare should be free for all. UBI. And of course continued education provided to train workforce into something else.

Agree, and this would require serious taxation reform in most countries.

Re: AI used well can restore middle class jobs [pdf]

#18

Post by asdff »

aerhardt wrote: post #8
asdff wrote: post #4

The problem with the concept of a middle class job (one where you can comfortably afford living, fun, saving, etc I think is most people's interpretations), is that it represents an unstable equilibrium state. Incentives of most businesses are the opposite of someone in the middle class. Businesses don't think in terms how they can take so little such as to perpetuate some idyllic lifestyle unimpinged, they think in…

Who are companies going to sell to if everyone is impoverished? The emergence of the middle class was a boon for businesses.

Why charge $5 for paper towels when clearly people can afford to spend $6? Repeat ad nauseum for just about everything a consumer might purchase until we go from the 1950s where an unskilled manufacturing job can pay for a home and two cars and a nonworking spouse and kids in college, to where you need to be a physician to afford the same today. Sure people aren't all impoverished and starving, but there's plenty of sources out there that highlight how wages have stagnated despite productivity gains and cost of living increases.

Re: AI used well can restore middle class jobs [pdf]

#19

Post by d--b »

This person assumes AI is going to stay in its current form: a technology that requires an expert operator to help accomplish tasks.

Most people are afraid of “next-level” AI, where no operator is required. If trucks can be moved without anyone at the wheel, truck driving is a job that won’t exist anymore. As simple as that.

Whether trucks can be 100% autonomous remains to see.

Re: AI used well can restore middle class jobs [pdf]

#20

Post by drewcoo »

asdff wrote: post #4

The problem with the concept of a middle class job (one where you can comfortably afford living, fun, saving, etc I think is most people's interpretations), is that it represents an unstable equilibrium state. Incentives of most businesses are the opposite of someone in the middle class. Businesses don't think in terms how they can take so little such as to perpetuate some idyllic lifestyle unimpinged, they think in…

> The problem with the concept of a middle class job (one where you can comfortably afford living, fun, saving, etc I think is most people's interpretations), is that it represents an unstable equilibrium state. Incentives of most businesses are the opposite of someone in the middle class.

Ok, and I claim that the problem with the current model of capitalism, as opposed to the post-WWII model, is that it's oppositional to a middle class - the incentives are opposed.

Now the question is about the societal outcomes we expect from the systems people create. Why should we prefer greater inequity and an even more complete loss of the middle class? These things are all being imposed by human-manufactured systems - we can control them.

We don't even need to throw AI or human desperation or planned economies on this bonfire of ideas to recognize that, as initially posed, the problem is itself incorrect.

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